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#453 In this podcast episode, Guy talked with listeners about the “river” metaphor and how people often kept working at the mouth of the river, or the physical symptoms, instead of going back toward the source. He reflected on his own long-term back pain and explained that real change had come when he stopped only chasing symptoms and began exploring deeper layers of awareness, energy, and consciousness. He said spiritual work had helped him see that small shifts closer to source could eventually create powerful changes downstream in the body, emotions, and life circumstances.
Guy also shared a healing example involving Brad’s chronic foot pain, describing how surrender, energy work, detoxification, and deeper coherence had appeared to support physical change over time. By the end, he encouraged listeners to ask whether they were only treating symptoms or moving back toward the source of the river, while making lifestyle choices that supported greater alignment with the body, heart, soul, and divine flow.
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If you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: What I Actually Do Every Morning to Prepare My Body, Energy & Mind | Guy Lawrence
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Timestamps
00:00 The 3D Paradox: Why Your Pain, Patterns and Problems Keep Returning!
01:19 Why We Keep Treating Symptoms Instead of the Source
02:00 Awareness: The First Step Back Upstream
02:23 The River Metaphor That Changed How Guy Sees Healing
03:09 Decades of Back Pain and What Physical Treatments Were Missing
04:23 When Relieving the Pain Still Doesn’t Reach the Root
04:44 How the Five Senses Become Embodied Through the Nervous System
05:38 How One Small Shift Upstream Can Change Life Months Later
06:36 What Is Consciousness Actually Trying to Show You?
07:31 The Chronic Foot Pain Case That Put the River Theory to the Test
08:26 Going Back to the Source With No Guarantees or Expectations
09:11 Why Chasing the Pain Can Miss What’s Really Underneath
10:05 Feeling Worse Before Better: The Purging Guy Didn’t Expect
11:06 Coherent vs Incoherent Energy: What Happens Beneath the Symptoms
11:36 The Foot Pain Disappeared—and Then His Knees Changed Too
12:07 Why Healing Can Unravel If Your Lifestyle Stays the Same
14:47 Taoism’s Pulse: Source → Consciousness → Spirit → Energy → Form
16:25 Are You Treating the Symptom—or Returning to the Source?
17:48 LIVE IN FLOW — Experience This Work in Person
Referenced in This Episode
– Gregg Braden
– San Qing
– LIVE IN FLOW
Transcript
Guy:
Have you ever noticed how you can keep working on the same problems in your life or the same patterns that keep showing up? Your behaviors, your body, your circumstances, uh, you name it, right? They might change shape, but somehow the same thing keeps coming back, and we never really seem to get to the, the root of it.
And this is where I think spirituality and spiritual work can become incredibly powerful, and it’s certainly changed the way I think about it in my own life. Because what if, instead of constantly working at the mouth of the river, we started going back towards the source? And that’s what I wanna dive into today. Let’s go.
Guy:
All right. Interesting concept, eh? This… I’ve actually got a new prop with me today. So if you’re listening to this in audio, you might wanna jump onto the visual and see my fantastic artwork. So this is a very expensive, uh, just joking, $5 whiteboard. I thought I wanna g- try and get creative, ’cause when we’re at the retreats, I, I lean on a whiteboard a fair bit where I can just go what’s in my brain and, and get it out.
But I constantly think about this, and as I’ve mentioned before now working with thousands and thousands of people in person, that’s no exaggeration, uh, we started to witness a lot of things. And even in my own life, I’m constantly looking at when challenges arise, whether it be physically, emotionally, or even mentally start to come up, in Western society and what we’ve been conditioned to do is seek out- outside of ourselves to, to get answers.
And more often than not, we tend to take something to s- uh, support the symptom, but never really get to the root or the core, and many things are not really looked at. Now, I’m not throwing rocks at anyone, I’m not badgering anyone. I think there’s a lot of amazing things in place that are here to support us as well.
But what I’ve tend to notice is that if things start coming up a lot, then we, we need to start looking deeper, and that’s where on our… one of our fundamental, uh, pillars is awareness. Awareness. And, you know, I harp on about it all the time. But in this beautiful little whiteboard for a sec, let’s see if we can do this.
So just imagine the river, right? But, you know, a river starts as a stream, so if we kind of… And rivers don’t move in straight lines, but for this metaphor, we can do it. And it can start as a stream, and then widens up down there. K- kind of like a funnel, isn’t it? And up here, we- that’s source. The source of the river. And to me, that can be light, divine whatever you wanna call it. And right down here at the mouth of the river, we got physical 3D.
Anything within the spectrum of light, doesn’t matter. Now, what we tend to do as human beings is only address the physical. For instance, I can’t tell you how many chiropractors I’ve seen, how many masseuses I’ve seen, osteopaths over the years to support my lower back pain. Now, I remember my lower back pain being from a place of around 14, 15 years of old, I was starting to get chronic back pain, which was really interesting, right?
And then I remember, ’cause I always remember going to see a chiropractor, um, near my little town in Neath where I grew up. And, uh, from that point on, when I was playing rugby, I’d always have to wear a belt brace and things. And th- and they got into, “Yeah, you, you need to have strengthen your core,” and, and I was having different, um, you know, releasing, um, treatments to, to e- eliminate the pain.
How often do we feel that, right? When we, we just wanna do that. But the challenge was, was that that back pain on and off had been with me for most of my life, and it’s only more recently that I’ve eliminated that back pain pretty much due to actually letting go of the physical, letting go of that aspect.
Yes, I still enjoy it. I do enjoy treatments and I’m not knocking anything. But what it was doing, it was fixing the pain or relieving it and the symptoms, but I wasn’t getting to the root core of it, ’cause I had no idea what it was. And to be honest with you, I don’t need to. I still don’t. But everything has shifted when I started to understand this concept here.
Because when we, when we, when we come into our world and we are perceiving through our five senses, then all the information is coming in and, um, and we tend to judge it and experience it, and that becomes our reality, and then we internalize it, and through the nervous system, we embody it. And, and a lot of that information we- ends up being embodied.
Now, the prob- the challenges with a lot of this work is that if we can’t touch it, feel it, experience it, or have our mind blown by some nine-dimensional breathwork practice or something like this nonsense that starts coming out, not that I’m knocking any of that. But what I’m saying is, is that if we don’t start having these literal experiences, then we, we discredit a lot of things that can go on.
But what I’ve noticed, the deeper, the deepen- the deeper my awareness has become, and the more connected to the source of the river or the more upstream we start to go… So you can have very You can have shifts up here that then affect the whole flow downstream weeks, months, and even years later. And s- I can’t tell you how many people I’ve spoken to at our, at our events or have done our work or had some of our energy healing experiences where there’s been a shift.
They can’t even put words to it. But fundamentally, things have started to show up different in their lives further down, and those circumstances tend to fall away. But we, we are just so conditioned to be here and not think in these terms, where I now flip it and I always go back here to source at the top and really start to hone in what is, what is consciousness trying to show me in these moments?
And through that alleviation, then things happen. I’ll put it another way. How can I explain this? So for instance, um, as my own personal gifts have continued to come online over the years, and as my ability to channel and hold this divine light and use my body as a vehicle to, uh, in my own personal, uh, essence and vibration, then I can support other people on their development of being able to embody more and more divine light.
DNA is, is an antenna. Gregg Braden. It’s been spoken about many times on my podcast. I’m not just pulling this out of my hat or ’cause somebody else said it on YouTube. There’s peer-reviewed science around this. Anyway, so the point being is that, for instance, I, I worked with someone last week, uh, Brad, he won’t mind me mentioning.
Uh, he’s actually just recorded a video for me. Now, he had chronic foot pain, and I, I can’t remember, there was a term for it where the, the arch of his, you know, the, the arch of his foot at the base was so tight and painful, he was struggling to walk on it. And this was plaguing him, I believe, for many weeks and this coming and going and coming and going and coming and going.
Now, in this world here, 3D, physical, what would be the treat? You know, you’d start to look at that. You’d start to look at the mechanics and, and everything else was going on fundamentally underneath and Who knows what would have been the diagnosis and to alleviate that. There might even be painkillers, prescriptions, and so forth.
Okay? So when we, when we dived in and did a, a, a session together, so what I do then is basically call in the light, bring that into a resonance, and Brad just lays back and surrenders. Now, I said, “There’s no guarantees, there’s no expectations. Let’s just see what happens and start to go back to the source of the river and see what the next piece of the puzzle is needed to put in place to allow more of that energy, life force energy, that vitality to flow through the body.”
We’ve got multiple systems. We’ve got a holistic body. It’s all walking– working in unison. And from what I’ve seen and from my own experience, just like the back pain, you, you generally don’t chase the pain. Okay? You go to … Y- you … If you chase the pain, there’s never normally the pain, there’s normally something fundamentally underneath.
Now, in that session with Brad, as he surrendered, he actually felt that, that energy, that resonance. He has a, he has a regular meditation practice. He- he’s got good habits in place, and he was able to let go and allow that energy to work through. Now, when he come out of the session, he was like, “Ah, yeah, that was really interesting.
I f- I felt this and that.” But of course, the mind can only conceive this part of the puzzle, right? Once we have to go beyond the mind to get up there. So I just said, “Well, let’s just see what happens over the next few days.” Now, anyway, I checked in with him the next day, and he felt really bad. He felt actually really average.
He was, um, he said he had a lot of mucus coming out and, and he was just purging a bit. So as all of a sudden his body was releasing and detoxing of something at a deeper level, which is, for me, that’s great, but for the person, quite often, uh, it feels horrendous and you think, “I, I didn’t come to have a session to feel worse.
I wanna feel better.” But When your body’s letting go, anything that’s not in resonance of source divine energy is in- ultimately toxic. We live in a toxic world. And u- unless we start gatekeeping what’s going through our body as … ’cause our body is a filter, then of course, down here in this river, the waters can get pretty murky. And, and I’m like, I don’t care if it’s a past life, I don’t care if it’s a parallel life, I don’t care what it is or what the story is attached to something, or why the pain or the trauma is there, it doesn’t matter.
Because at the end of the day, at a core level, at the essence of it all, it’s all vibration. It’s all energy, and it’s either … That energy is either moving coherently, okay? Or incoherently, right? And it’s in the incoherence of that energy, if we are 99.999% energy, vibration, emotion, and if that’s not moving freely, then the body’s systems are not humming as they should.
So anyway, um, I think he felt pretty crap for about two or three days as he was purging, but the foot pain went. And I checked in with him, it’s been now two, three weeks, still no foot pain, okay? And he even talked about now that the swelling in his knees have gone down, and he noticed his knees were freeing up even more, okay?
So that, for me, is an example of starting to go back to the source. But what’s important, and important for anyone that’s, would really want to embrace this work, is that your choices, lifestyles, and habits need to start to support source more and more. And it’s like as we are clearing and creating more coherence in, in the body itself, we still want to be complementing it, not working back upstream against it.
So in other words, if we’re still going into the work and doing a lot of things that are not actually congruent to our heart, our soul, and our truth, then would that foot pain come back? Of course. Would the, the swelling in his knees come back? Of course it would. So it’s, uh, the key is to start making sure that we’re fundamentally making lifestyle choices, slowly but surely, that are gonna affect this flow continuously.
Does that make sense? So what I’ve done over the years is I’ve ensured that I’ve worked with, uh, amazing spiritual healers, practitioners, and all sorts, while I’ve conditioned my body to understand and resonate more and more at this level. And through that, uh, it’s been a, a wonderful learning journey, but very painful and very challenging at times.
And if it wasn’t for my back pain, I know that I wouldn’t have gone to the depths of actually exploring this to this, this level to go, “What is going on here?” So I am so grateful. I am so grateful. I am so grateful, and I continue to do and ho- be in that space of the challenges that we have. So wherever you’re at, I don’t care.
There, there, there is a way. I’ve witnessed it, but it’s like you want everything in alignment because the moment we go back into the old self and the old story and into 3D and into muting just the symptoms and just wanting the pain to go away so we don’t have to change our life, and quite often the life th- and the, the choices we’ve made that have got us into some of the challenges we have It doesn’t change.
So it’s like this dance. It’s like this, uh, supporting, um, uh, congruency within ourselves. Anyway, I hope that makes sense as well. And another way of looking at it, I’ll quickly mention one other thing ’cause, uh, I just had, uh, San Qing, uh, who was a Taoist master back on the podcast. He’s become a dear friend, actually.
He’s, he’s such a great guy and very, very wise, knowledgeable, no shit kinda person. But in Taoism, they always talk about the pulse, and the pulse is the animation of all things, i.e. to me, that is source. That is the divine, the pulse. It’s, it’s what’s giving rise to life, animation to all things. And then when they talk about it, it goes from pulse, and pulse gives rise to, uh, consciousness. I won’t spell all that out, but consciousness, okay? And then from consciousness, that gives rise to spirit, s- and then spirit gives rise to energy.
And energy, I believe, gives rise to form, physical, yeah, in that progression. So we just tend to play d- play down in these realms here, the form and the energy realms. But what I’m interested in, in is how can I bring more of that pulse into form, okay? The congruency right through, and through different practices and, and developing that muscle.
Boy, you can really move the needle on it. Really move the needle on it. So I want you to, uh, contemplate on this, all right? Look at that. What a, what a piece of artwork, huh? I hope that makes sense. It’s a bit of a rambling, but at the same time, I really feel, uh, it’s something I wanted to share today with you to, um, go.
So the question that you can leave yourself with, am I going into the symptom or am I going back into beyond the f- the 3D into the source of the river? ‘ Cause the minor adjustments can have tremendous, tremendous influence at the mouth of the river. But when we’re just trying to change the mouth of the river, boy, that, that’s a l- that’s a lot to, to move or try to move, and it can feel monumental.
So don’t discredit the work you’re doing where you’re at, and think in those terms. I hope that helps. I hope that helps. Um, with that in mind, I will be conducting more, uh, healing sessions. I’m gonna be opening it up more to the public and doing very intimate groups at the moment. And if that appeals to you and you want to start exploring the energy work and actually going back to the source of the river yourself, I can support you in that, and, and in the doing of that.
So if all this resonates, uh, check it out. There’ll be some links bef- links below, and you can go from there. No matter where you are in the world, I’ll, I’ll try and make the times, um, work for, you know, the America side and also the Europe side, even though I’m based in, uh, Australia. Anyway, that’s all from me. I will catch you soon.
I’m standing here right now in Lake Taupo in a beautiful retreat space, and there’s a vast difference between an intellectual experience and passive listening to a fully embodied lived experience, ’cause that’s what retreats can do. They can help you land, start to truly reconnect to yourself, to others, to nature, and to spirit as well.
There’s so much in it. That’s why we created Live in Flow, and that’s why we are so passionate about getting this work out there and bringing people together. If you wanna find out more when our next retreat or event is coming up, just check out the link below.


