Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Alan:
And the problems in our life are not because life is working against us, ’cause we’re working against life. We’re trying to grow our boat upstream. When the stream is actually taking us to a very good place, if we were trusted, it’s very easy to get trapped into the mazes of intellect where you analyze everything and I’ll figure it out.

That’s one faculty, uh, it’s one tool only. All the religions and all the great spiritual teachings say that the seed of true wisdom is the heart of the brain. In ancient Egypt, when somebody died. They would keep the organs that they felt were sacred. They scooped out and threw away the brain, but they kept the heart. But they believed that the heart was the source of true wisdom.

Guy:
Guy here, if you ever feel like life is pushing you. And you’re feeling stuck in fear or you’re trying to control something and it’s, you’re struggling to surrender, then this episode is definitely for you. Today, my awesome guest is Alan Cohen, who I reached out to and invited him on. Uh, he’s a beautiful spiritual teacher and he’s an author, and his work has helped, like tens of thousands of people remember that life isn’t meant to be a struggle, you know?

So it’s a real. Great podcast. Today we talk about what it means to become a spiritual vessel. How to expose the fear that’s running our lives, uh, can be anyway. And how to finally trust the divine flow that’s always guiding you. Uh, even, even if it doesn’t make sense, how do we get there, right? So it’s an empowering and a beautiful invitation back to truth, and I have no doubt you’ll enjoy it.

Be sure to let me know in the comments below where you are in the world. I’m feeling quite. Steady today, you’ll probably feel in my voice. I don’t wanna say that. Yeah. Subscribe to my YouTube channel. Help me get it out there. It always, it’s always deeply appreciated and of course, yeah. If you wanna dive into our work, we are around, we are in Tasmania, we’re in New Zealand, we’re in Australia.

We’re gonna Croatia, oh my gosh. There’s all the links are below. It’s all sorts of free meditations and stuff to help support you. Much love from me. Enjoy this podcast with Alan. It’s beautiful.

Guy:
Alan, welcome to the podcast.

Alan:
I am absolutely delighted to be with you.

Guy:
I haven’t had this conversation much on the podcast in terms of a course in Miracles and different as aspects of the teachings, but also I’d love to get to know you a little better as well, if that’s okay for us and the listeners. But I, I want to start the podcast where I always started, and that is if you were at an intimate dinner. Table with, and you sat next to a complete stranger and they said, what do you do for a living? Or what are your passions? How would you reply?

Alan:
I would say I write and teach to inspire people to live their highest, authentic self.

Guy:
What does authentic self mean to you? It’s something that we hear often.

Alan:
Well, there’s kind of two levels of it. One is that fundamentally we’re spiritual beings, that we’re divine, we’re whole immortal, we’re creating image and likeness of love, and that’s our true self. On another level, we’re expressing in the world. So each of us has a talent or a passion, whether it’s golfing or teaching or meditating or massaging or writing.

And so, um, when we live from our heart and from our honesty, so then we become a vessel for spirit to reach into the world and touch and heal lots of people. So it’s, it’s being true to your spirit and true to your personality.

Guy:
I, I know growing up in Wales, myself, personally, in the Valleys of Wales, I wasn’t taught any of those principles. And I felt so misaligned, so misaligned, it wasn’t funny. And, um, you know, it is like, you, you get this apprenticeship, you get this job. You, you play rugby, you drink beer, you, it is just upon you. And there was a part of me screaming inside that, but I couldn’t even articulate it, you know? Um, and it’s, it is been a journey. And I’m curious from that vantage point, have you always lived in alignment? Has this been something that’s come natural for you? Like where did your journey begin, if you like,

Alan:
Yeah, I mean, it’s come unusually natural for me. I mean, I was always interested in spirituality. Uh, when I was 13, I took up Orthodox Judaism. And then when I was 20, I took off on the spiritual path and did psychedelics and yoga and meditation and all that. So I’ve always been on the spiritual path.

However, I have certainly had my moments of misalignment when I was living in fear or guilt or trying to follow somebody else’s prescription for me, and those are always red flags for me to get back on the path. So, um, you know, I think we all share the same path that we’re here to. Be true to ourselves and live more hard and be magnificent.

And when we stray from that, like you said, it felt horrible. You know, you’re something inside you was screaming for, you know, for authenticity. And I think that’s true of everyone. I think we’re all screaming for authenticity and our job is to find a way to it and

Guy:
Wow. Where, where did you grow up living then? Like being exposed to yoga and psychedelics? Because like honestly, in the valleys of Wales, there wasn’t even a yoga studio. I didn’t even know what it was at 20

Alan:
Yeah, I know.

Guy:
know what I mean?

Alan:
Yeah. Yeah. I grew up in New Jersey, just outside of New York, so there’s a lot of

Guy:
Yeah.

Alan:
A lot of stimulation. But you know, I think somebody who grew up in a sort of a, a rural place like you, it almost like it intensified your desire. Because how you were living and what you were missing, there was such a large contrast that it created a burn in you to find it. And so in some ways, that contrast propelled you even more than somebody who’s kinda living close to

Guy:
When did, when did you start to look into then the teachings of a Course of Miracles? When did that come into your presence?

Alan:
Well, I was about 30 years old or so. I, um, I saw some signs up for it and I thought, this is tacky man. Miracles. Is it like waving your hand and making holy s or rings? I thought it was kind of like a psychic parla trick. But then I saw this article about it and this voice said, just get it. You know, just do it.

And I sent wafer it. It was $30. It was a lot of time for me at the time. It was a lot of money for me in 1980. Um, but I sent wafer it and I opened the book and the introduction just jumped out at me. Like Batman. Remember in Batman movies, they go pal, he’d be a big star flesh. A voice said, this is real.

This is, this is true. You gotta do this and that. It grabbed my soul. I just had to do it. And I’ve been doing it for 40 years now,

Guy:
Wow. And for anyone that’s not familiar with it, because I have not read the book, I’ll be on, my wife has, but, but I haven’t. Um, how would you outlay it? Why is it such a, a powerful presentation of information, if you like? That’s changes people’s lives continuously.

Alan:
Yeah, it’s um, some people call it spiritual psychotherapy. Uh, it reaches into your heart and soul and helps you discover the blocks to the awareness of love’s presence. And through a series of exercise, it helps you peel away what’s not edited in your life so you can reveal what is it. Uh, the key to the course is the workbook.

There are three books, the text, a workbook, and a manual for teachers. And the workbook is the key. It’s offers a lesson a day for 365 days and starts to have very simply, very gently in the builds and builds. And if you do the lessons each day and practice the exercises, you’ll achieve a, um, just a mental and, and emotional transformation.

Where guilt starts to fall away and fear starts to fall away and illusions and false identities start to fall away, and you eventually step into your powerful spiritual being, which, you know, a lot of people love the course for that very reason.

Guy:
What is a miracle in your definition then?

Alan:
Well, excuse me, according to the question, miracle is a miracle is a shift in perception. It is not necessarily jumping out of wheelchair. I mean that, that’s fine. That works too. But it’s really the change in mind from fear to love, from guilt to innocence, from separation to connection, from um, resistance to trust.

It’s kind of inverting the world as we’ve been taught It is. And putting us back on solid ground as God created us. It’s really, it’s an inversion of, of the rules we’ve been taught and replacement of them with higher loss.

Guy:
Wow. And it almost feels like, like, ’cause you spoke of me, you know there was that, that. That discomfort that drove me, that made me more hungry to to lean in. Which is, which is so true, right? Is that what is needed with the course of miracles? Is it people that tend to lean into scope because that’s. Even the thought of it. I would love to do that book. Honestly, I’ve, I’ve got a 14 month year old son. I’ve got a 5-year-old daughter. My li you know, I run events. My life is full and I think, oh, that’s a commitment. But then that’s just my perception is, isn’t it? I’m just.

Alan:
yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. The first part of your question, it is true that we all feel a certain divine discontent, and you have to be, to a certain extent, fed up with your life as it is in order to ask for something higher, even if you have a good life, you know, there’s always something higher and, um, I would recommend, I, you know, I have two books, not that I wanna sell, but books, but a lot of people read my book, of course, in Miracles Made Easy.

Of course in Miracles is a very gentle introduction to the course, and it, it kinda like it, it lays out all the foundations to the course. So by the time you get to it, you kind of know what it’s about. You’re not surprised and you’re ready and motivated to dig

Guy:
Okay. Okay. And then go from there. So you spoke as, as well then. The stripping away of fear in the presence of love is, I believe that’s how you framed it, so the it’s ever present, it’s ever there, and it’s more of a letting go of the things that are not serving us, as opposed to

Alan:
yeah. I’ll, you asked me about, I have two very good stories about this,

Guy:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alan:
Uh, one, one of, one of my clients, um, she went through a divorce. And, uh, they negotiated themselves without attorneys, and the final sticking point was their pensions. And during the marriage, they had agreed that if one died, then the other person would get their pension.

You both had good pensions from the educational system, and the husband refused to continue that agreement, and they bick it over it for a while. Finally, she thought, well, let me just trust. I will not identify him as the source of my wealth. So she said, okay, I, I agreed to your terms. The next week, a friend phoned her and said, I was just thinking about you, and I’ve decided to leave you in my will, my entire estate.

And this woman had two homes, an apartment, a car, a pension plan. She was very wealthy, and to me that was a very clear demonstration that when we give up, being motivated by fear and we drop back into trust, then amazing things happen that would’ve not happened if we continued to. To fight for our good. We don’t need to course tells us we don’t need to fight for our good. We can just, you know, if we just be ourselves and all of our good will come to us.

Guy:
How, how do we get to that level of trust then to really, to be able to let go and surrender in in something. Far greater because that that can feel terrifying. Um.

Alan:
Practice, practice. Practice. What I, what I do, I, I do a holistic life coach training, and I, I use a very simple method. I ask a client, um, let’s say somebody’s undecided about a job or a medical treatment or a relationship. ask them, what does the voice of fear say? Well, it says, if I lost my job, I’m gonna be screwed.

I’m gonna have to sell my house. I’m gonna, you know, I’m, I’m really hurting and I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m lost and abandoned. What would the voice of love, trust, or confidence say? Well, it says that I’ve always been taken care of. I have skills, and perhaps there’s an even better job for me that can help me more than the old one that I lost.

Then I ask them, which voice feels better? And they always laugh and say, well, the second one. So it’s a daily practice of shining light on the voice of fear and realizing that’s never worked and it’s not gonna start working now, and then holding it up by contrast to the voice of love or trust or confidence.

And recognizing that feels so much more real, it goes to much deeper level and so much more soul, satisfied, sat satisfying, and, and making a conscious choice to trust the higher voice instead of being at the, at the mercy of the lower voice. I. And we each have a hundred chances a day to practice that somebody cuts you off in, in traffic, you wanna flip on the bird? Okay, well that never got me anywhere, but let me just breathe and move on. So, I mean, we have a hundred choices a day to, to choose between those two voices.

Guy:
No, I, yeah, I can just see myself doing that now and then thinking, oh, why did I, why are we so reactive? Then? Why? Why is it that we are so conditioned to react the way we do, even though there’s a deeper part of this that knows it’s wrong? We’re in the spirit of the heat of the moment,

Alan:
Yeah, that’s a good question. Um, it’s just early emotional programming, uh, watching your parents and teachers and clergy and seeing how they lived and assuming that. The fears that were driving them were real, and they should drive me too. Um, there’s another thing that Earnest Holmes, the founder of Science of Mine, called Race Mind.

And what he meant was that there’s a, there’s a pool of thought, like a cloud that really, uh, runs most of humanity. And when you tap into that pool of fear. You’re subject to all the misgivings and, and, and, and sorrows that that pool engenders. And so it takes a very conscious being to really go within on a daily base basis and choose to not sub subscribe to the pool of weirdness.

That most people subscribe. I mean, our country is nuts now. I’m in the US now. It’s a, you know, it’s a wacky, wacky place to live with a lot of fear and a lot of accusation, anger, and, you know, blaming and, and it’s like, it’s super easy. I don’t even read the newspaper anymore. I’ll see a headline here and there, but.

Just to go into that, it’s like going into a cesspool, you know, with a bunch of wackos hating each other and fearing each other, and I refuse to join that. You know, I, I, I wanna keep, hold my head high and, and be a model of wellbeing and peace and healing rather than fear and, and, and, and emotional responsiveness reaction is.

Guy:
Do you feel that humanity will get it? Like, are we moving in the right direction even though it’s projected out there? There’s so much noise. Like you say, I do my best to avoid. That because it’s like, I, it’s just too much. It’s too overwhelming, you know? And I’ve got my own things I need to deal with on a daily basis, let alone try and get

Alan:
yeah. That’s a good point.

Guy:
you know. But do you, do you, do you feel that we are more and more leaning into love and that we are love thy neighbor and, and, or like, what’s your opinion?

Alan:
Well, I have a slightly different take on that. Um, have a metaphysical teacher who talks about, um, simultaneous parallel realities, and what he says is that, you know, there are many realities that coexist on the planet at the same time. And Jesus said in my father’s mansion, there are many rooms. That’s what he was pointing at.

He didn’t have physical language in those days. So I believe that there is a real reality in which the earth will go on as, um, pardon the expression as a shit show, as some people call it, as a, you know, really nasty place of suffering. However, I believe there’s a certain group of people who are reaching higher.

And that there is a more rewarding life on earth available to those who choose it, and those who choose the higher realm will be able to interact with each other as if that’s true. Even while simultaneously with people who still, you know, having a hard time will, will deal in that realm. So the answer is yes, there is a better life available to those who are willing to choose it.

It’s, it’s a matter of. Establishing yourself in the consciousness you intend to, and then recognizing all the gifts that, that, that consciousness draws onto you.

Guy:
Yeah. No, I get it. I thank you. It makes, it resonates a lot. You know, just even though my journey, when we spoke off air, when I made the decision, I really wanna. Live in alignment with what my heart was calling forward. My life has become more beautiful than I could possibly imagine, truly in so many ways.

And, and that when I tune into that cloud of noise and whatever it is that’s out there, it’s like, that’s not my reality. And it’s only because I’ve chosen a different direction and actually lent into how I, how I feel. So I, I completely relate for sure.

Alan:
And all of your podcasts are actually reinforcing that reality for those who choose to live in it. This is the value of all of us who are doing our spiritual teaching that I. You are establishing a vibration that calls people to it who are ready for it, and that reinforces that they can live in it as well. That’s, that’s, that’s big value of what you’re doing, guy and

Guy:
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. What did the Course in Miracles do to your life then? You spoke about it, you were 30 years old, this book came and it just resonated. The moment you, you opened the book, like I. In terms of its teachings, its the trajectory you’ve been on since being able to trust and to lean in and surrender. I’d love to know more.

Alan:
it, it, it, it really helped me drop into the deepest place inside myself. Uh, and it, it helped me let go of lots of neurotic programs. Uh, letting go of guilt and fear. I, I grew up Jewish and the Jews are masters of guilt. They say that the Jews invented guilt and the Catholics perfected it. Really? But every religion has guilt in, I’m just playing with you.

Um, and so it really. I guess the word trust is a big element to my life now that really helped me to trust that I’m on my right path and if I live in alignment with my values, good things will happen. It um, I used to fight over money. I don’t do that anymore. Uh, I used to run after women. I don’t do that anymore.

I used to, you know, it’s like a lot of the values that drive most people have. Have fallen away from me. I still have my ups and downs a bit, but for the most part, the stuff that caught me before doesn’t catch me now. And if it does, I, I have tools to, to work my, my way out of it more

Guy:
Yeah. No, I, I hear you. I hear you. Then. Do you believe life is meant to be, I don’t wanna use the word easy. A non struggle is it really come down to what we choose. ’cause when we’re in struggle, it it’s, it’s hard and it’s hard to see a way out of it or, or a different way through.

Alan:
Yeah, that’s a beautiful question. I think you’d really like the chorus guy, because the chorus, there’s a, one of my favorite lines that I quote very often is when you have learned how to decide with God. All decisions become as easy and bre as breathing, and you’ll be led as if along a quiet path in

Guy:
Wow.

Alan:
I quote that all time. And the course says that life can be extremely easy if you’re willing to get aligned, you know, with higher power. And it also, excuse me.

Guy:
That’s okay.

Alan:
One of the big values of the course is that it re recreates our perception of an angry, wrathful, punitive God to God of love and only love. Like it entirely pulls the rug out from any idea that God, God wants to punish us or hurt us or send us to hell. It just, it just really dissolves that. It redefines a god of love that wants us to have an easy, peaceful, joyful life, wants our relationships to work, wants us to be healthy, wants us to be abundant. And so, I mean, can you imagine really believing that the universe wants you to be happy? I mean that that was a big shift for

Guy:
Hmm. So then if that is the case, does it come down to every choice point that we make in this is in alignment with that, that resonance of love then that if the universe is a loving intelligence. And the choices and decisions I’m consciously or unconsciously making on a daily basis are not in alignment with that resonance, therefore, keeping me separate from it with.

Alan:
Yeah. I think you got a lot of this already, man. Uh, one of my books is called the Dao Made Easy. It’s about the Dowdy ching. And you know, LASU said that there’s this thing called the Dao, which is the flow of life and it’s a benevolent river. And when, when you put your boat in, that river will take you to beautiful place. And the problems in our life are not because life is working against us, but ’cause we’re working against life.

We’re trying to row our boat upstream. When the stream is actually taking us to a very good place, if we would trust it. Um, I have another great story, if I might.

Guy:
share them.

Alan:
So, uh, years ago I was about to get on a plane in Hawaii to go to California and the, uh, airline announced that the plane would be delayed for two hours from mechanical reasons. And I had put in for an upgrade, a first class upgrade, but it was not, not approved. So I thought, well, let me go to the desk. And get in their face. You know that expression guy? It’s a, it’s a New York expression. Like if, if somebody does, if you wanna get somebody to do something, you get in their face until they give it, give it to you.

And I thought, well, let me get in somebody’s face to gimme an update. But a lion had formed before me for people trying to do the same thing. And I thought, do I really wanna stand in line for an hour waiting to get in somebody’s face and still have a say? No? Probably. A voice said to me, Alan, what do you teach?

And I thought, well, I teach trust. And it said, well, you know, if you were trusting, what would you do now? So well, I would step out of line, I’d go to the executive lounge was I had of pass for, and I put on my feet up and take a nap and do some emails and just enjoy my two hours instead of trying to fight with somebody.

So that’s exactly what I did. We came back as the plane was boarding. And I hear a voice over the pa. Mr. Cohen, please come to the desk. Okay. Your first class upgrade came through. Cool. Then the lady says, I have no idea where that seed came from. It was not here a minute ago. I. So she gives me my ticket and I walk away and I realize you’re supposed to give ’em these coupons to pay for your upgrade.

So I went back and I said, would you like my coupons? She said, no. The computer here says it’s paid for, and that’s good enough for me. Said, well, good enough for me too. And I stepped on. I think I enjoyed that flight more than the

Guy:
can imagine.

Alan:
and. another example guy that, um, trust is a very practical tool. Like you don’t just feel better when you trust, but good things really happen when you trust. So to answer your original question, you know, when I decided not to go into a fighting mode and just to go into a relaxing mode, that was the dow, the river of life, taking me to the executive lounge. So I had two good hours, plus I got my upgrade.

So the course is very practical. It invites us to work with a very nitty gritty, earthy situations in our life to learn that spirit. It really is present and we really are loved and cared for if we’re willing to open our arms and receive you

Guy:
Because what there’s, yeah.

Alan:
stuff.

Guy:
Yeah. And what, what you share there, Alan? It’s like, um. You almost, it’s like, because I I did recorded a podcast yesterday and he was talking about just being in flow and creation of your reality. And it’s like, so in that moment to help me break it down for myself and listeners, were you attached or not?

Not attached. It’s like, well, if I don’t get the upgrade, I don’t care. Or is it that kind of essence, that resonance that you are at? But it’d be, but. Or was it like, no, in your mind it’s like, no, I’ll get the upgrade. I’m just gonna trust and, and sit back like,

Alan:
It was the first part, like I had to, I had to give up my demand that I get the upgrade. It had to be more fun for me to be peaceful and to be in conflict. And when I gave up the demand, you know, what I wanted came back with no effort on my part

Guy:
Hmm. Yeah.

Alan:
There’s a, a Chinese, um, expression called wwe, and it’s kind of like the dao. It means like the art of effortless living. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about. It doesn’t mean you lay back in bed and wait for a lottery checks to flow through your window. You know, because I, I work, I work hard. I always say work hard, but I work a lot. I, I write lots of books and I teach retreats and I do podcasts, and I do coach training.

I do a lot of stuff, but it’s from a sense of joy and creativity and celebration and connection, uh, that’s, it’s a form of, it’s, it’s a working ease. It’s, it’s, you know, I’m, I’m easy in what I’m doing, even though I’m very active. So I’m not lazy. I’m very active, but there’s a sense of lightness about what I do.

Guy:
No. Beautiful.

Alan:
Usually so.

Guy:
Yeah, the, the human, we are all humans at the end of the day, isn’t it? No. It’s interesting ’cause I had an incident the weekend and. Uh, and it was, it is really highlighting what you speak of because we, we actually here, our company live in Flow. We distribute a product called Bio Geometry from Egypt. It’s a wonderful technology. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with it, by Dr. Abram Kari. Um, we’re very passionate and we’ve been distributed ’em for about five years, and we have a, we use Shopify, a shopping cart to host the products and people come and buy ’em in Australia and we ship them out. And it got hacked into the weekend. And not, not, not, only did it get hacked in, they were able to change our passwords. So all of a sudden the hackers took control over our shopping cart and everything inside, and we were locked out. And they, and,

Alan:
Wow.

Guy:
and there was this moment of like, oh, that’s interesting. What do I do now be, because I couldn’t get hold of Shopify there in Canada. The customer support. I mean, the, the process is still going ongoing, but I felt this conflict in me, my stress levels were starting to boil, thinking, oh my God, they’re gonna go and get into our accounts. You know, there’s all sorts of things you might wonders to, to,

Alan:
Yeah.

Guy:
can I just trust the process here and, and let go?

Alan:
Yeah.

Guy:
and I, I must admit, I was dancing between two for about six hours, for about six hours. But Yeah.

Alan:
Well I can certainly understand how that would be upsetting. I’ve had something with that happen. I was, I was worried. So, let’s do my little exercise, shall we? So what did the voice of, if you’re willing, uh, what would the, what did the voice of fear say?

Guy:
The voice of fear said they’re going to, they’re gonna get into all your accounts. They’re gonna take all your details. And start going through. And the next thing I know, it’s gonna unwind so much work. I’ve gotta start doing all these problems. I’ve gotta start rectifying this. How long is this gonna take? How much money is it gonna cost? How many people am I gonna upset because they can’t order or not receiving the pro, you know, it just, it went there with all of it, right?

Alan:
that’s a very detailed voice of fear. Thank you for your honesty. I know that one. Okay, so let’s just flip from, take a breath if you would. So in contrast, what would the voice of trust or confidence or vision or love say

Guy:
Sorry, it cut out a little bit then. Can you repeat that?

Alan:
what? What would the voice, what would the voice of trust or confidence or vision or, or love say? What would the higher voice say?

Guy:
The higher voice in that moment. The first, the first thing that come in is it’s, it’s only digits on a screen. It’s not real.

Alan:
Hmm.

Guy:
These people are probably in a lot of pain themselves and are doing things that don’t resonate with themselves. There is a human on the other end that’s suffering somewhere within that. Those decisions that they are making right now. All could be, will be rectified this. There’s not, it’s not life or death.

Alan:
Wow. That’s also a very compelling voice. And which voice feels better.

Guy:
The second by far, even just saying it, I feel it. I feel it in my body. Right.

Alan:
Yeah. You just, you dropped in. Yeah. So thank you for doing that. Yeah. So. That’s the process we all go through often, and if we can just isolate those two voices and drop into the higher one, then actually greases the process for this to get resolved. Because when you, you know, you remember that song, don’t worry.

Be happy. You know, Bobby Ferran, Ferran said, you know when you, every life there is some trouble. But when you worry, you make it double. And so really, you know, if you can drop in at a challenging moment like that and trust that really, it, it, it, it accelerates the process of getting it handled. I just, I, it’s just the way the game

Guy:
the way it is, right. And yeah.

Alan:
I loved your reframes. Just what, it’s just stuff, just numbers that these people must be hurting and they’re gonna get handled, you know, everything gets handled eventually. So, you know, let me just flow with

Guy:
And then it’s that. So what you’re saying is that it’s that resistance that causes the friction to It is. And then the moment we are, we’re allowing life to flow. That you reference the river and then and, and then truss wall will be Okay.

Alan:
yeah. It’s the fear-based resistance. You know, remember in, in, I think Doth Rad used to say resistance is futile. Well, it is, you know, not that, not that you shouldn’t make a stand for politics or, you know, whatever’s real for you. But it’s that, that angst that I gotta fix this, that something’s wrong, and that I have to do it all myself.

You know, if I don’t fix this and it’s not gonna work, not gonna work. So it’s just a very, that voice is so nasty, guy. It’s, it’s filled with pressure and guilt and shame and worry and, ugh, it’s just an, you know, I’ve gotten to know their voice pretty well and myself and, you know, hundreds of my coaching clients.

It’s just a vicious voice. And if we could recognize that that’s not, that’s not true. It’s not, it doesn’t come from God. It doesn’t come from love. It’s just a learned, nasty voice that we’re, we’re all working our way out of step by step each in our own way.

Guy:
Is it possible then to fully just live in the presence of love through life?

Alan:
Yeah. You know, I, you know, I know I have not achieved that 100%, but I’ve achieved it more and more.

Guy:
Hmm.

Alan:
And there are certain enlightened beings who remain, look at Jesus on me. And he was crucified. He said, forgive them. I mean, that’s a pretty high, that’s a pretty high teaching. And in fact, um, in the Course in Miracles, which I should say was channeled from the voice of Jesus.

You know that Helen Shukman was a psychologist who opened up and the voice came and was the voice of Jesus. And he talks in the course about a lot of the stuff that he said during his life, some of which the Bible accords accurately and some of which inaccurately, inly. And he says that the only purpose of the crucifixion was to demonstrate that it’s possible to love in the face of extreme adversity.

That if he could love, even though this horrible thing was done to him, then we can love if somebody cuts us off in traffic or we get a bill or, you know, we go home for holiday and our, our own mother’s nasty to us. You know, it’s like this, those seem quite minor in the face of the kinda love that Jesus manifested. So, you know, and I don’t relate to Jesus as a religious figure. I relate to him as a role model, as a, as a, as a master spiritual metaphysical being. That’s how I think of him.

Guy:
How, how powerful is love then? Because I know there are many people that would see it as a sign of weakness or a sign of not strength. I.

Alan:
Yeah, I’ll tell you how powerful it’s one of my clients. Her father was a war veteran who suffered from PTSD, and when she was, he was, he was prone to emotional outbursts, violent outbursts. When she was seven years old, he took a gun. And lined up his wife and five children against the wall. He said, I’m gonna shoot you all and I’m gonna kill myself.

True story. And they were all hysterical except for my client. She said, oh no, you’re not daddy. And she lunged toward him. She reached to hug him and in that moment he dropped the gun, burst into tears and fell to the floor, and his family surrounded him trying to comfort him. So you asked the question, how powerful is love?

That kind of innocent, loving, averted a horrible tragedy. She had a, somehow she kept her head on straight and she was willing to stay in her, her right mind when everybody else in the room was in the wrong mind. That’s the power of

Guy:
Wow, that’s incredible. It, um, it does make you wonder in reflection on my life, where the fear can take over in a way where we get a sense of control or we try and resolve everything from a conditioned mind that thinks it knows it’s all. To being aware enough or shift the perception enough to be present with a heart and present with that then connection to divine in from each moment. It,

Alan:
Yeah, look at that nice shirt you’re wearing says heart. It’s

Guy:
I know I, I’m loud and proud with it these days. You know what I mean?

Alan:
live and flow retreats. Look at that. You, you’re advertising exactly what we’re talking about and talking about retreats. I do lots of retreats myself. Retreats means you’re remembering how to treat yourself. You are coming back to your, your right, your sense of self-worth and self-kindness, and you’re re treating yourself.

Guy:
Totally. How does one get out of the trap as well of not going through the motions of it, um, and actually making it. The application. ’cause you know, like I come across a lot of analytical people, they understand the information. They can talk about it, they can pull it apart, they can recite it word for word, but then applying it from here that they saw in the head. They don’t even know that they’re not in their heart, but they know it.

Alan:
Yeah. Yeah. A friend of mine said last year, I took the biggest step in my life. It was only 18 inches. I moved from my head to my heart. And so it is, you know, it’s very easy to get trapped into the mazes of intellect where you analyze everything and think, I can just reason this out, then I’ll figure it out.

But that, that’s one faculty of, it’s one tool only. But as you said, when you drop into the heart, all the religions and all the great spiritual teachings say that the, the seat of true wisdom is the heart, not the brain. In fact, in ancient Egypt, I know your product is from Egypt. When somebody died, they would keep the organs that they felt were sacred and throw away the other ones.

They scooped out and threw away the brain, but they kept the heart. Not that the brain is not valuable, but they believed that the heart was the source of true wisdom. And so it invite anybody who’s struggling with a question or conflict or problem to just as we did earlier, just take a moment and drop from your head into your heart and ask yourself.

What does my heart say about this? What? What does my inner guide say about this? What does my spirit say about this? And I’m a big fan of asking for guidance. I would say, spirit, please show me. Tell me what I need to know. In order to handle this in my best interest and the best interest of everyone, and I’ve been doing it for many years, guy, and I’ve never not gotten an answer. Not always in that moment, but eventually those situations resolve because, you know, spirit, spirit’s pretty smart, and Spirit always guides us. That’s to what we really

Guy:
say, how does that answer present itself? Does, it could be like a aha moment in the shower or like just the thought drops in or.

Alan:
Yeah. You could have a shower, you know, you could, you could be having a conversation with somebody and they say a word that you needed to hear or mention a phrase. You could, um, you could see an advertisement for a book or a seminar or a product and, and this voice as well. You know, year, years ago, um, I was living, I had a partner many years ago, um, with a lovely partner.

Never. This was before. And we had bought a house together and we were partying amicably. And, uh, we, we were discussing I wanted a buyer out and there was a conflict within me. So this voice said, call Charles Black. And Charles Black was a man I had met at a conference just casually the year early. I did not know him well, but.

But I just remembered this was a nice guy voice said, call Charles. I called him. He said, yeah, you know, I, I got divorced a couple years ago and my wife wanted more money than I wanted to give her, but I thought, you know, we were together for 20 years. We had a family. Why fight over money at this point? So he said, I, I, I kind of let her have what she wanted.

He says, Alan, he said, that money came back to me in so many ways multiplied. Plus, you know, my relationship with my wife and children is, is stellar. So I did the same thing and I lost nothing. So, you know, and that, how did I think of Charles Bla, of all the people I knew, I knew him just casually, but somehow he was the guy I needed to talk to. And so in that moment, spirit guided me in a perfect direction and everything worked out. So, um, you know, sp I’m not special. You know, spirit will speak to every, everybody has a spirit. Everybody has a inner knowing, and if you’re willing to ask, you will get a good answer.

Guy:
we just forget, don’t we? That’s half the half the battle.

Alan:
We get distracted, you know, our minds are busy with somebody said, don’t sweat the petty stuff, but don’t pet the sweat. Don’t pet the sweaty stuff. In other words, don’t, don’t be so distracted by minutiae that you forget the big picture of your life. It’s a big picture of your life that matters. Somebody said, you know, nobody keeps pictures of their office at home. So we do keep pictures of our home at office. So, you know, it’s, it’s all a matter of choosing your priorities and sticking to them. That’s, that’s

Guy:
Yeah, totally. I, it’s one thing I wanna raise before we wrap up the podcast, and you did a YouTube video called Be the Mule and that that really resonated. Do you mind sharing a little bit around that, please?

Alan:
Yeah. It’s, you know, I, sent out this podcast, you know, at the beginning of the current administration is a. A big turmoil and a lot of people are really, really angry and upset and fearful about what the administration was doing. And I thought, well, let me, let me see if I can make a contribution. So the theme I gave was, when a farmer has a corral of nervous horses, what he’ll do is he will take a mule, which is a very stable, grounded animal, and he will put the mule in with the horses and the.

The energy of the mule brings the franticness of the horses down. The, the mule emits a very grounding, healing vibration. So I said, you know, when we’re living in a country or a world where a lot of people are going nuts, the best thing we can do is to be the mule and to really be a stabilizing, clarifying, um, empowering factor.

Rather than diving into the fray with everybody else. So I think, uh, you know, a lot of us have families that are kind of nutty or workplaces that are kind of nutty, or politics that are kind of nutty. You know, if you can go to your work and be the mule when everybody’s being the skittish horse, you’ll make a bigger contribution to your workplace than anybody else there, or your family, or your politics, or your country or your religion. So, you know, we’ll have to be the mule at this point. So let’s

Guy:
I, I love it. I love it because I, I, I truly feel like one of the, the. One of the struggles was for me as was peer pressure. Like it’s just people around you and expectations and everyone. It’s just piled upon you and we don’t even in the moment we wanna. Be the mule, or we want to stick our head out and go this way.

Like over here they call it tall poppy syndrome. It’s like, oh, look at him over here, let’s just cut them back. Tall poppy syndrome. So the moment, so, so the moment the Poppy’s head is above the rest, they just wanna chop it down,

Alan:
I

Guy:
you know? So, so you’re not in with the hood, uh, or, you know,

Alan:
I see, I see.

Guy:
yeah.

Alan:
Yeah. Well, you know, um, I’m sure that everybody is watching your, your podcast is really on a spiritual path, and we need to know that we’re connected. You know, even if we don’t see each other physically, there’s a huge community of millions and millions of people. Who want to hold the light in the dark world.

And we do that each in our own individual way by meditating, praying, of course miracles, yoga now, whatever you do, using your products and the stuff that you offer. So we’re contributing to our community in ways far more than we recognize. So your piece and my piece is what’s needed in the world, more than anything else, more than our money, more than our lectures, you know, more than our retreats.

They’re all good. But you know, anything that cultivates inner peace is the most powerful contributions the planet at this moment. Even, you know, even it was going to the movies. I had a, I was doing a retreat once and this lady was, um, reading before bedtime in the lobby, and she’s reading I. Emergency magazine, true stories of ambulance calls.

I said, Josephine, why? You know, why would you come to a spiritual retreat and read stuff like that before you, I would gimme nightmares. She said, well, you know what? She said, I work on the rescue squad and this gives me really good ideas. So that was her unique method. Of raising a vibration and coming to peace, and I realize she’s making a contribution by finding peace through that method, so I don’t get to judge what brings anybody else peace, and nobody gets to judge what brings me peace. If we end up with peace, then we’re in the highest service to the planet.

Guy:
I love it. Absolutely. Last question for you, Alan, is. If anyone’s to embark on the Course in Miracles, what can they expect? It’s a book of three. I’m actually asking for myself here, ’cause I’m, I’m leaning in thinking I, I really need to give this a crack, but it’s so, it’s a simple chapter for each day, I believe, uh, with one exercise.

Alan:
Um, it, it’s the, there’s three books. The, the text is a very thick, it’s a lot of, a lot of text. It’s kind of obstru, but the workbook is the key. Yeah.

Guy:
Okay.

Alan:
A lot of people put the course aside because they never make it to the workbook. So I suggest to everybody start with a workbook. When you buy the book, there’s three books pressed together in one, in one volume. Um, and so start with a workbook. Do one lesson each day. It’s just a little bit, a few minutes each day. And practice the lessons. If you, if you don’t understand, if you don’t like it, if you have resistance. Most people have some resistance in the beginning because it’s attempting to undo our, our painful belief system.

And our pain does not want to go away. It wants to, wants to assert itself. And so if you just do each lesson one day, you know, it gets, it gets easier after less than 30. I should, I should give you a prediction. Um, then stay with it and you’ll achieve a, a change. A change of mind. Meanwhile, look through the text. Meanwhile, look through the manual for teachers. Just whatever jumps out at you and, but let let the daily lessons be your guide that that’s the real key to

Guy:
And follow it through, obviously. So if you commit, do the year

Alan:
Stick with it. You’re gonna wanna be distracted. You want to get just the course says even if you don’t understand this lesson, just keep doing it. And some of the lessons I really, really love and get totally some I don’t quite get, just keep

Guy:
Don’t, so Don’t get stuck on lesson 33, I think. I don’t get that. And then just, yeah, I won’t do 34 for a while.

Alan:
go to lesson 34. So what. And they’re all, all the lessons are taking you to the same place. It’s very redundant. So if you don’t like one lesson, so what, forget about it, the next lesson will take you to a better place.

Guy:
What does your routine look like these days, Alan? Your daily routine, your morning routine, your, you know.

Alan:
Yeah. I like to get up early, often before dawn if I, if possible, um, I meditate. I could do my own deep meditation anywhere from. 15 to 45 minutes, depending on, you know, what’s going on at the moment. Then I do my course of miracles. I’m gonna do my writing, I do my creative writing for a couple hours. I go to my office and do my emails and, and all that kind of stuff. And then I hang out with my family, my dog, and my partner and my, I go to the beach if I can. And you know, I love to connect with people through my work. And I love, I love the, I don’t like the business emails, but I like the connection emails.

Guy:
the, that’s the joy, isn’t it. Yeah.

Alan:
Yeah, I, I, I love to do my retreats and my classes, so, you know, that’s, that’s my life

Guy:
Do you hold your.

Alan:
And Gardening garden, I.

Guy:
there’s very therapeutic, that’s for sure. Do, do you hold your retreats in Hawaii or do you do them all over?

Alan:
Yeah, we have a beautiful retreat center on the island of Hawaii and uh, I do course miracles retreats. I do life coach training retreats. I do medical professional retreats, all that kind of stuff. And people love to come to Hawaii. It’s kind of a great combination of beautiful atmosphere and spiritual training.

Guy:
well, like I said, we had our honeymoon in Kauai and it was. It was, yeah, beautiful support.

Alan:
Where do you do your

Guy:
We, we do them currently in here in Northern New South Wales of Australia. There’s a beautiful, uh, eco retreat center called Gaia. So we do them there in the rainforest. We do them in Bali and then we do them in and Croatia of all places. ’cause the third component is

Alan:
Wow.

Guy:
live-in Flow. And there’s myself, Matt, who’s American and Petra, who’s Croatian. So. great. Yeah,

Alan:
Great. I love it. What’s, what’s the main theme with the tree? What are you, what are you teaching basically?

Guy:
to help people. Really, a lot of trauma seems to be a theme of moving through the trauma and working with the body itself. So we use breath, we use sound, we use movement, we use meditation, and it’s really, they’re called reconnected. So it’s really allowing to.

Alan:
Great.

Guy:
energy flowing again and holding space for people as they move through it. And, but what blows me away and I is just, and you would see it all the time, is when people come together that actually from the heart, nobody talks about what they do for a living or what, how much money they earn or jobs. People just get to know people the right way and those connections and bonds, you know, a format of it is, is just phenomenal.

Alan:
Yeah. The sense of fellowship and connection and mutual support. That’s, that’s

Guy:
Yes. And ’cause when you’re in a room with non-judgment and people are genuinely in their hearts and and holding space for each other, it’s you, you wonder why the world is like, why can’t everybody know about this? Or the world is not living from this place.

Alan:
That’s the big question, isn’t it? Yeah. Well, we’re doing the same thing. It’s in our own way. We’re brothers from another mother, so, um,

Guy:
Absolutely. And just for everyone listening, there’ll be links in the show notes below for, for you, Alan, but where can they go? Um, where can we send them to? They wanna check out your books and your work.

Alan:
Alan cohen.com. A-L-A-N-C-O-H-E n.com.

Guy:
Thank you. And, uh, any, any last words, anything you wanna leave the listeners to ponder on before we, uh, wrap things up?

Alan:
You know, I think we said it all. I think that we dropped a lot of golden nuggets and I think I. I think if any of our listeners got just one good idea from what we shared and just you work with that and take it in and make it, make it real in your life, I think it can take you all the way

Guy:
Beautiful. Alan, it’s been such a joy getting to know you on the podcast, mate. I really appreciate your time

Alan:
Amen, brother.

Guy:
you do.

Alan:
Be well.

Guy:
thank you so much.