Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Gary: [00:00:00] I would like people learn to think critically, especially at this time because that’s the reason people end up in trouble when they lose their powers of discernment, their ability to critically think to question things and to trust their own innate wisdom and, and not allow themselves to be dictated to by power outside of themselves.

Guy: The episode you’re about to watch has been republished. My podcast channel reaches a lot more people now and there’s certain episodes that have slipped under the radar and I wanted to bring them up for your attention ’cause I truly feel they are worth listening to. So please be sure, let me know where you think of this episode in the comments below.

And of course, let’s continue to connect. Let me know where you are in the world and where you’re listening and tuning in from. Uh, I love reading it. It’s amazing, isn’t it, that we can do this. And the other thing I wanna say as well is find out where we are. If you wanna put your spiritual boots on and come and join us at one of our five day retreats or one day events around [00:01:00] the world, links are below as well.

If you wanna find out more what we’re up to. Much love from me. Enjoy.

Guy: Here we go. Gary, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Gary. Thanks for having me. Deeply appreciate it. It’s funny. We’re not that far apart and here we are on technology, the world we live in. Um, I, I love to ask everyone on the show, uh, starting out if, uh, let’s say we were at an intimate dinner party. And you were sat next to a complete stranger, and they got talking to you and asked you what you did for a living these days.

What would you say?

Gary: I can never answer that question properly. I feel my answer is just ridiculous. Would anyone take it seriously? So, I teach meditation, but um, you hardly think that that’s a, that’s a job or something that you could actually learn a living doing. But anyway, that’s what I predominantly do, teach

Guy: meditation.

Yeah, beautiful. What, um, what led you into that? Because like you say, predominantly, how do you make a living out of [00:02:00] that in the first place? What’s your story? What got you into sort of leaning into this work? Have you always wanted to explore these concepts since a child? Because I find that quite often when I speak to guests, or was it just a gradual breakdown to breakthrough kind of thing?

Gary: I think I was very, always from a very young age, I was always very, um, interested in, in things of a deeper nature, and I didn’t really have context for that. I didn’t have any, uh, sort of informal teachers or instructors or anything like that, but my, my mum was very spiritual and she fostered that. In, in us boys, she had three sons and yeah, I think I was always like looking inward and try and understand like the nature of existence and, and myself and getting in touch with something more profound than, you know, what we experienced just with our five senses.

Guy: Yeah.

Gary: So I was very, very, very deep thinker as well. And I think I thought too deeply as a kid that I [00:03:00] got myself into a bit of a mess. I didn’t really know the answers to the questions I was proposing. And, and so I remember feeling a little bit afraid. And so I stopped asking those questions and forgot about spirituality for a little while.

And then I guess when I was probably, um, you know, in my late teens, I, I really began in earnest again to, to kind of connect spiritually with myself and, and then I fell into a bit of, bit of drama and grief and I got in trouble and then that kind of led me to really pick up a, a, a meditation practice and,

Guy: and then I met my, What, at what age was this?

Yeah. When, when you started to get into the dramas in life?

Gary: Uh, when I was 21, i I is when I really started to, um, change my life. I, I learned meditation and then I had this huge shift in basically 21, how I was living my 21. Yeah. I remember feeling like, I wished I’d learned it 10 years earlier, but I know a lot of people think, God, that was so young.

Um, so I think [00:04:00] I learned a formal practice and I, I, I then came under. The tutelage of a, of a great master, a great teacher. And I, you know, studied a long time with him and spent a lot of time with him. And that really revolutionized my whole understanding of, of myself, the world and how to fit in and what the, uh, what I should be directing my, my time, my energy towards.

Wow. So it was like 21, 21 was a massive turning point. And I guess it’s been, um, yeah, a, a pretty special journey ever since then.

Guy: Yeah. Incredible. And what was your day job? Like, were you working at the time or did you like go overseas to India to study under a guru or something? Like what, how, how did you fit that into your Western life?

Because some people just kind of pack their bags and disappear for a year or two.

Gary: Yeah. And I was planning to do that. Um, that, that was my, that was my grand plan when I was 20. need a, I need a guru. I need a teacher. I’m just gonna. Let go of my life and I’m going to go renounce everything and live in India.

And I’m going to do the classical, find a [00:05:00] guru, sit at the feet and just absorb whatever I need to absorb. So I was fully prepared to do that. And then when I was 21, I actually met Tom Knowles, who also is known as Maharishi Vyasananda and he’s a great, great, great master, but, um, a householder. So he taught me that, You know, there is a way to integrate and not have to withdraw from society and, you know, all of the things that modern existence, um, offers, you don’t have to renounce that you can actually, you know, Be fully, you know, integrated and be woven into everyday material existence, yet be having a real spiritual experience within the midst of that.

And that was kind of quite revelationary for me because all the books that I was reading and the masters I was interested in were enunciates, you know, lower classic people who had no interest in, in worldly, worldly things. Sort of, um, affairs or families and things like that for the main part, they were more just directed towards, um, their own personal spiritual quest and, um, [00:06:00] and, you know, my teacher at that time, he’s got 10 kids now, then he had about seven or so.

So yeah, yeah, a lot of kids. Um, and so here’s the embodiment of, you know, this is, this is integrated householder, grahasta living.

Guy: Yeah. Wow. Incredible. So when you, there’s a couple of, there’s a couple of directions that sparked me in is, is Most people are not familiar with a guru or having a master and someone to speak to.

How do you define the wisdom of those teachers that are passed through into your life? Because I do find it fascinating. And I’ve grappled with this in my own life. Sometimes there’s a part of me that just thinks I just want to retreat from the world. Like it’s, it’s getting uglier and uglier. And I want to bury myself in the hills of Byron Bay, grow some veg and, and just.

Shout out from the world, but then there’s another aspect of me going. Wow now more than ever there needs to be a message I’ve learned enough to know that I can pass on some [00:07:00] wisdom in my life to Generations that are coming through at the same time So I kind of battle with this in my own in my own world as well, if you like, you know, so

Gary: yeah Definitely and there is that idea that You know, the, the yogis will withdraw, and you know, there’s these, you know, these enlightened beings that are sitting far away from society, and people could argue whether they’re not making any contribution, like how are they standing on the front lines opposing, you know, the rise of communist Australia or whatever it may be.

Um, but then you realize that these people are silently supporting creation, you know, upholding the fabric of consciousness and emanating a lot of, of their own, um, strength and support in a subtle manner. So I think everyone, everyone plays their role and at different stages of your life, you might feel drawn to, you know, dive right in and then withdraw completely.

And so I’ve gone through similar phases, but what I’ve learned to do is just trust whatever the energy is. [00:08:00] Calling from within me to, to participate in, and sometimes it is to engage, and other times it is just to work on self, elevate myself, create that influence within my immediate sphere of influence, and then, you know, that’s, that, that can be powerful in itself.

And if everyone did that, if everyone was, you know, nurturing, cultivating higher consciousness, the world would never be able to descend into misery.

Guy: Yeah, but it’s a very hard concept to wrap your mind around if you haven’t thought about it in those terms in any shape or form, you know, like, I can only go for my own journey because like, you know, I was, it’s, it was just my life as a Welsh rugby player.

you know, drinking beer and not even seeing a yoga, not even seeing a yoga studio in Wales at the time growing up. And like, I never went to church. I never had religion. I never had any, any kind of framework or anything. I was kind of just left to my own devices. And slowly, I guess my heart took me to the teachings and [00:09:00] wisdom of The very things that you, you talk about, but it took me a long time to get there.

And then, uh, you know, I got smacked over the head and it’s like, Oh my God, like what’s, what’s going on, you know, where, where listening to you, like you, you, it’s quite incredible that, that to me, in my mind, you are 21 looking at this work is just blows my mind, honestly, you know, when I, when I only have my own lens to compare it to, um,

Gary: yeah, well, I think what you suffered from was a cultural thing where we don’t have a structure, which.

The, the, the next generation can grain, gain enlightenment or can accelerate their personal development or the development of their mind and understanding. Because basically, you know, we get engendered into a philosophy and a belief system. And this is why like the Vedic culture, the Indian culture is like so exquisite because it has this deep understanding that there’s this more profound.

Element to life that most [00:10:00] other cultures, you know, aren’t really tapping into not only, you know, do they have spiritual foundations, but they have all these systems and, you know, ways and means and rituals to help, um, others. Become like devotees of that element of life. You know, if you want to call it something like a spiritual devotion, and it’s just seems like that has been corrupted over time.

But from my experience with the Vedic knowledge is it’s still got its purity intact, and that’s the role of a guru to act as like someone that is a catalyst. For growth, change to accelerate their personal evolution, because it’s like someone else can do it on their own, but could you imagine trying to learn, you know, the English language or learn about maths or discover, you know, um, the, what are the elements that exist in nature is way easier if someone just teaches you that,

Guy: you

Gary: know, so this idea of our schooling system is the same, [00:11:00] that we have these people who have knowledge, people who Um, don’t have that knowledge and then they rapidly acquire it through an education system.

So that’s the role of a guru to create, um, I guess a mental and physical and spiritual unfolding.

Guy: Which can be terrifying in some respects. You know, I, I, again, just referring to my own journey when, when, when there was my identity started breaking down, even when I was. Talk to you off air about how I sold out of my company.

Like that was a huge transition and starting to trust something greater than myself and that I’m, I’m actually following my inner compass now and not actually what the outside world is, I guess, perceive and dictate to me on who I should be and how I should present myself. And, and. in that space, it’s, it’s, it’s like, you know, like this fragile sprout, you know, coming through and it’s, and so I can [00:12:00] see whether the teachings and the masters and people there, because obviously I had my own support when, when coming through that, that transition myself.

When you were 21, Did it feel like that for you or was it because you had a foundation with your, with your mother saying, like you said, she was very spiritual that allowed you to have a smooth transition? Did you work in fashion? Did I hear that somewhere?

Gary: Yeah, yeah. I used to, um, I worked in, in, um, television, in film, and I also had a, had a fashion label as well.

So I was, I was working freelance and juggling a lot of different things and I was getting pretty You know pretty burned out pretty stressed out and that’s kind of what led me led me on my quest to To pick up a meditation practice because I realized I was not headed in the right direction Yeah, I just wasn’t feeling good to be in my skin

Guy: And then at what point did you decide to have you stepped away from all that or do you still entrepreneurially have?

Multiple businesses and things going on. Are you just like

Gary: Yeah, I guess [00:13:00] like my mum, she, she worked in welfare and she was very selfless and she was very much, um, into spirituality and wisdom and living a very conscious, um, life and making a contribution. My dad was a real entrepreneur and he was very, um, I guess interested in forging his own path, not conforming to society.

And so I’ve taken on both of those, um, I guess, ways of, of approaching life. So I think I’ve got this creative entrepreneurial side, but I’ve also got this, Deep, like, devotion to, you know, higher consciousness. So I think my life tends to reflect that now, like, I’ve got a retreat and I’m quite, I’m quite, um, good at integrating the both needs of life, the physical material and the, the inner spiritual aspect or whatever you’d like to refer to it as, like creating that harmony and [00:14:00] balance.

Guy: Yeah.

Gary: Um, so yeah, I mean, I run a retreat and I do a lot of coaching work, personal development work with people, um, you know, I work with football teams, I work with, um, kids, I do a lot of work of different, you know, different kinds, but mostly, um, you could say it’s, it’s, it’s psychological.

Guy: Yeah, fair enough.

And yeah, it’s yeah, because there’s always a subtle trap. I’ll never forget interview and I can’t remember who it was on there. And he said, yeah, because most people I’m talking to are in similar fields to you or in the health space and everything. And he said, yeah, all this wellness is making me sick, you know, where he was just like pushing, pushing, pushing.

And like, there’s definitely a subtle art to finding that balance isn’t there, you know, it’s very easy to stray.

Gary: But yeah, you’ve got to have a good inner compass like you were talking about before. That’s the that’s the only way I can do what I do is just really practicing deep listening tuning into myself and where the energy of [00:15:00] life is kind of ushering me to go and I never override that.

And so that’s how I’ve been able to sustain, you know, the high level of what I do and the integrity of what I do, because everything can be corrupted. We know power, corrupts money, corrupts all these things corrupt. So the same thing when you’re someone who’s in a position where other people look to you for something, it would be very easy to.

Manipulate or, um, take advantage of that. So I make sure that that I’m always just in integrity. Am I representing this, this tradition, this lineage, which I’m part of, um, am I playing my role in my genuinely supporting people? Um, I, am I in integrity and authenticity each time, each time? Each, you know, each day of my life and that’s the most important thing to me.

Guy: Yeah, no, beautiful, beautiful. Um, why do, what do you find, where are people at when they come to see you? Like, because it seems to be quite a diverse, like you said, football teams for a start, you work with football teams. Like, what would you be doing with a football team to say somebody that’s, you know, [00:16:00] Just burning out struggling, you know, like,

Gary: yeah, I guess a mixed bag.

When I first started teaching, there was a stress was the huge feature. Okay. And, you know, people would come because they’re struggling with stress, anxiety, or insomnia, or they’re feeling, you know, really down and out or like professional burnout, whatever it may be. Um, and now I’m like, over time, I’ve noticed that.

There’s an extension happening, like people are growing, um, increasingly curious about is there more to life? Um, how do I tap into, you know, a deeper part of myself? How do I really get to know who I am? Um, how do I bring more meaning, significance, purpose to existence? And I think there’s, you know, there’s been this enormous proliferation and growth and awareness around meditation itself.

And I think mastering the art has been something that people the awareness is there and I feel there’s just like a longing because the world is changing dramatically. You know, when I learned to meditate, [00:17:00] you couldn’t really talk publicly about it without being shamed or laughed at and you know, it was something that you couldn’t really share with even your close friends because they’d think you’ve gone off the rails.

Whereas now it’s so different and there is like, This amazing consciousness revolution happening. Where there’s so much um, enthusiasm for people doing the inner work and exploring different aspects of themselves and life and all the different kind of layers of truth and getting in touch with what is, what is reality.

Where is you know, fulfilment? How do I remain whole and happy in this world that seems, you know, obsessed with, And so I think there’s a, like a big quest for, for deeper understanding. And there’s a hell of a lot of ignorance on the planet, which there always has been, but I feel there’s this, this rise in this interest to, to grow and evolve for people

Guy: massively.

And, um, not that I’m expecting you to solve the world’s problems in, in a, in a podcast or anything, but [00:18:00] what do you make of the last, you know, 18 months, two years of. Of what’s been happening. What’s your take on it? Because that’s actually how I discovered you, believe it or not. My, my dear friend, Fiona Chadwick, I don’t know if you know Fiona, but she shared a video of you speaking on a Facebook live when everything was like, wow, this guy talks.

And then I started following you from that day forward.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, that’s a tough one. Like, um, you know, I think I would start with just saying that there is this thing called life. There is this power, this sacred force. And we’re all in its, in its embrace, you know, we, we come into this planet, we come into these bodies and we start to participate in this thing called human existence.

And this does seem to be a deeper power, which is conducting the flow of all things. And so as a human being, you know, sometimes you can think, well, why is this happening? And this isn’t fair and this is wrong. And so [00:19:00] I always like to come back to, well, this is what life’s doing. And we either have to trust life has intelligence, and wisdom, and intent, and purpose as part of its nature, or life is just chaotic and random and nothing really makes sense and we better just like, um, you know, somehow inoculate ourselves against the chaos.

Or we can realize the chaos has a purpose. And the chaos is there to generate growth and awakening, because how does anyone ever really grow or evolve if it’s not for the weight of like pressure and suffering, like suffering is an amazing teacher, one of the best. And I think it’s one of the, the teachers that always creates movement because no one tends to grow or make changes when they’re comfortable.

So people who have like a really deep connection with their internal like energies will know when there’s a shift in that and then [00:20:00] they’ll start to adjust. But a lot of people aren’t really in touch with that, they’re more kind of outwardly directed. So meanwhile, while the internal energies are saying, you know, make change, make change, make change, and they don’t, then the world starts to say, well, we’re going to have to start to be the voice for that.

And so external life can start to be challenging and fall apart and do all those sorts of things. And then you get to a point where, okay, I’ve got to, I’ve got to do something now, I have to act. Because now I’ve got a sore back, or I’ve got a disease, or my marriage is falling apart, or whatever it may be.

But no marriage falls apart like that. Or no one gets injured, generally, just like that. There’s all these precursors that we’re not paying attention to. So I feel that, um, you know, as a collective, we’re going through like a, a mass initiation into, I think, a higher truth or a deeper understanding. And I have to say that, um, I have my opinions, personal opinions about what’s going on, and I’m happy to share those.

Um, [00:21:00] but I, I was very disheartened, uh, At various points along the way thinking, what is wrong with people? Can’t they not see, like, the reality before their very eyes? Why is everyone, like, so full of fear and this and that? And then I was looking at what the government was doing and thinking, wow, I’m really losing faith in this great country of mine, um, and humans can be so gullible sometimes and so easily directed just with, like, a headline or, you know, something, some announcement.

What I’ve seen in more recent weeks is this massive uprising of people actually starting to use their own discriminatory logic, discernment, and critical thinking, which seems so absent. Um, at the beginning and I’m like, wow, okay. So sometimes we just have to keep the camera rolling and from the darkness can come goodness, can come like these huge shifts.

And so I feel like what humanity is going through won’t make [00:22:00] full sense until we’re a little bit further down the road and then we can reflect back and go, okay. This is what was born of that. And it could go either way, certainly. But there’s, it’s certainly a lot of psychological warfare happening.

Guy: Yeah, it’s an incredible

Gary: time, isn’t

Guy: it?

It’s an incredible time, you know. Again, you sparked a couple of thoughts within all that. Because I’ve noticed in myself, like, like you say, when we talk about the collective energy, there’s, there’s been moments when the collective energy of fear is impalpable, like there’s no escaping it. And you’re like, Oh my God, this feels absolutely suffocating, you know?

And I’m curious to know, Because what do you do, and I think this will be really beneficial for listeners, you know, how do you bring in a snapshot of how do you manage that in your personal life? Because we’re all fallible, we can all get falls from grace daily, you know what I mean? And like, what have been some of [00:23:00] your key, I guess, rituals or things in your life that allow you to stand in your own truth?

Well, chaos. Yeah.

Gary: For me, it’s having a daily practice that allows you to transcend. And by that I mean, to transcend means to move or go beyond. So we can understand that most of the time people are living in their thought forms. You know, their mind tends to govern and absorb their energy, their focus. And so I, I meditate every, each and every day, couple of times, morning and, and, uh, you know, evening.

And so that allows me to withdraw myself and it lets my body defrag and release whatever friction or tension or artifacts of life might have, you know, um, been acquired. And so I can, I can clear myself in, in body and mind every day. So keep my spirit strong and keep myself really anchored and grounded in myself.

So it means that [00:24:00] fear and confusion and uncertainty and just the weight of, you know, life, it doesn’t get embedded and it doesn’t take over. So for me, like that is one of my real critical, critical things. And I’ve, I’ve done that ever since I was 21. And I think I’ve benefited massively just from having that daily, daily regimen, daily routine.

And, um, the other things that I do, uh, just pay attention to life. That’s it. Pay attention to, to inner and outer life. And just really doing all I can to remain present in the moment and attuned to what’s what’s alive and awake and moving in me and also what’s happening outside. So I’m always trying to harmonize those two worlds and just monitoring myself moment to moment.

What’s happening now? Where am I at? Um, and just where am I at mentally with my awareness? How’s my body? How’s my breathing? Um, am I on the path or off the path? [00:25:00] So I kind of feel like There’s like a tightrope that we walk, and it’s maybe, maybe it’s not as narrow as a tightrope walker, but it feels like there is this dharmic path.

And when we’re really living in the way that our individuality is intended to be living, we feel a sense of grace, a feeling of lightness, a feeling of purpose and belonging. And then when we deviate, for me, I notice I feel a little bit off. And I feel a little bit uncomfortable and the cues can be just really subtle, but the more I deviate, the more those cues get heavier.

So I’m always just navigating and just checking in where I’m at. How are we tracking? Am I doing this? Well, I’m on course. Is this right? Should I, you know, just letting, just staying in touch with that guidance. And just really moment to moment, just, just staying in harmony.

Guy: Yeah. Yeah. No, beautiful. It was, I always remember my old mentor used to say to me, he’d be, he’d always have guide like true meditation is what you do with your eyes open during the day.

Be present, you know, check in and, [00:26:00] uh, and there’s so many distractions now in life. Like, Oh, no wonder we don’t know ourselves. Yeah.

Gary: No. And I feel like I’m pretty lucky that I’ve got a, you know, I’ve got a forest on my property and. Yeah. I’m just communing with that and getting to know, you know, the natural world more and more and more.

And, and that, that’s a real, uh, incredible source of, um, enlightenment for me is that, that, that world is just so deep, so present, and there’s all different energies that you experience when you’re there. And just the wonder, the wonder of being in the natural world is something that, um, I’m finding deeper and deeper affection for.

Guy: Yeah, I ask you a deep question for a moment. But do you think life is meant to be a struggle? Or do you feel life is meant to be of joy, bliss and harmony? Or somewhere in [00:27:00] between? I’m curious to know because I ponder this myself. I’m going to, um, uh, a weekend workshop and there was a guru that they’d flown in into town and I’d never been in a guru.

It was quite funny, Gary, cause I was the only one I was in there sitting there in my CrossFit gear and my single and everyone was dressed in all their white gear and everything. And I felt like a real anomaly, but I really connected with this guy and the whole weekend. He kept cracking jokes and he was a joy to be around like he truly was and and it completely changed my perception of of What what I didn’t know anyway, you know what I mean?

Because you you make up your belief system. So Coming away from that. I was like wow, that’s Completely that sort of challenged my old paradigm. But anyway, what are your thoughts?

Gary: Yeah, I think all gurus are different um, some Have this incredible lightness of heart You And others can be, because everyone has a different personality, and [00:28:00] just because someone gains enlightenment doesn’t mean their personality disappears.

Right. Um, you know, so we, we find that generally there is a, a, a, a lightness of heart and a playfulness to, to, to realize masters because they’ve broken through the illusion that life is, you know, this big serious ordeal. They realize it’s a play of consciousness and they’re, they’re, they’re. You know, in the world, but really not in this world, you know, this world is a dance to the, to the senses and to the mind and so they can be more, more, um, lighthearted and humanist and playful in it.

So, because life’s regarded as being like a Leela in the Vedic view, like it means a sport or a game.

Guy: Okay, Leela.

Gary: Yeah, yeah, Leela, yeah. So it’s interesting. And so we’re all players and we’re all playing this sport and some people are so caught up in the in the game that they forget they’re playing a game and that they should be having fun.

Yeah. So I think like to answer your question, I think life is is joy and [00:29:00] struggle, and it depends on which level of life you’re you’re living from. So if you find life has three different layers to it, There’s the su superficial there, there’s the surface of life where there’s all the matter and the dance of all the different forms.

And then you have, beneath that there’s an energetic field. And then beneath that, there’s a field of infinite pure unboundedness. Hmm. What’s known, known as in Daoism as the Dao. Um, Vedic sciences as, as braman, or, um, you know, Amar or, or this pure field. Without content. So when you’re in touch with that field, you’re in a state of bliss.

But if you’re disconnected from that field and you’re living on the surface of life, life is very mercurial. Because we have night and day, light and dark, birth and death. So that realm of life is [00:30:00] full of contrast. And I feel that one of the great mechanisms that creation uses to get people to go to into that field of the void is to make life unbearable, uncomfortable and difficult, because it causes us to turn inward and ask deeper questions and look for answers and promote the change that we need in order to not suffer anymore.

So suffering, as we mentioned, is a very unique teaching tool, and it triggers us to seek a way beyond suffering. And then we start to seek out God, for some people, that word is very evocative, but we start to seek out something which is, you know, is vast and powerful and is supreme, and we, we look more to the source of life.

And we’re in touch with the source, the, the, the, the, the quality of that, that it brings is this feeling of comfort. Joyfulness, ease, trust, instability. [00:31:00] And then I think when you’re grounded in that, then you can enjoy the play and you can enjoy the waves of life. And so it’s really about, um, being anchored in your inner being, being anchored in that field.

And then that brings this, this joyfulness, or it brings, um, this capacity to, to enjoy the ways of life. Because often we think, I don’t want, life’s not, why is life doing this? This is not fair or fun, or I want something other than this. But the surface of life isn’t designed to be like that. It’s never meant to be flat.

Like a mirror, like the ocean just flattened and dull and non activity because that’s not life on that express level. Life on the express level is change, is fluctuation, is dynamic. And if you look at it another way, it’s impermanent, like nothing lasts or remains on that level of life as it is for very long.

Whether it be someone’s health, or fame, [00:32:00] or wealth, or whatever it may be, there’s, there’s, there’s a time limit to all of that.

Guy: Totally. Yeah.

Gary: And even like someone, I feel good today. Well, okay, let’s see how you feel tomorrow. Am I the same? Well, I might have changed because that’s what the physical body’s always doing.

But there’s something that remains that’s permanent and that has lots of different names. And it’s that, that we need to get in touch with and, and that’s the joy of doing that is. The reward for doing that is this feeling of wholeness and joyfulness.

Guy: Yeah, no, beautiful explanation. You know, I remember interviewing, um, uh, Mark Devine.

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him. He’s an ex Navy SEAL. Very conscious, incredible human being. Like, and, uh, you know, and, and we were talking about it all. And, you know, and I think you’ve heard it many times, but he summed it up. You know, um, suffering is a form of separation, you know, and I always think about that and I never really understood [00:33:00] it, but when I think about, you know, like, I always say source energy now, you know, what, what gives rise to the human, the more stray from that.

The more I normally end up in my protective egoic self and um, and that’s when the, the, the judgements and stories come in, you know,

Gary: yeah, exactly.

Guy: Yeah. I’m curious to know, um, on your journey, why did you decide to then lean into retreats and you know, you, you, um, you’ve gone and set up a retreat center. I don’t know if the timing was Perfect with, with everything going that happened in the world, but, um, what’s been your journey there?

Gary: Yeah, I started to, to teach meditation was working, you know, one to one with people and then working with groups. And then it was, I’d done many retreats. During, during my time with my teacher and, and it just felt like a, a natural progression. So I [00:34:00] started running retreats and they were enormously popular and I started doing retreats locally in Australia and then I started to do them abroad, mostly in, in Bali.

And you just realized, When you can capture someone and hold them in a space and immerse them in, in a, in a process and experience that the change you get is, is extraordinary because like peppering in practice. midst all of the other demands of life. It’s like the, the spiritual practice will take you forward three steps and then life will sort of take you back to, so the, the, the momentum that you get is stifled somewhat, whereas when you do it retreat, it’s a massive acceleration.

And so I loved, um, holding that space, challenging people and watching the transformation they go through and, and, you know, giving them techniques, which are, you know, very, very powerful and effective and letting them engage them Many, many days, whether it be five days, seven days, Bali itself was a seven day retreat.[00:35:00]

So I think you can, you know, I’m always wanting to help people as much as I possibly can. And when you look at what you can do with someone in like an hour consult or, you know, over the course of a half day or whatever it may be, you can, you can do a lot, but, um, there’s so much more you can achieve when you’re like, okay, cool.

You’re, you’re captive, you’re here, you’ve come, you know. In with deep intention and here are the techniques and let’s just practice them day in day out day in day out. Um, so for me, that was kind of the pinnacle for me. Like that’s the What I can imagine is the most high and sustainable and achievable thing for people.

Cause you couldn’t, you can’t always take someone away for three months or six months or whatever it may be, but you can do these, you know, these week long intensives or, you know, reasonably long intensives that allows them to then take that back to their life and feel. The effects and then [00:36:00] do a daily practice to support it’s continued unfolding.

So retreats are just like a wonderful way. It’s like a, I don’t know, it’s like being a DJ and having human beings to, you know, to, to help, um, you know, trigger to have different experiences. Yeah, exactly.

Guy: Yeah. There’s, there’s something about taking oneself out of your current environment. That’s constantly reaffirming who you think you are.

And then when you put them. In a completely different environment with completely different people. That in itself can be transformative, let alone the practices that come with it.

Gary: Yeah, it’s so true. It’s so true. And, um, I mean, this place has a lot of power, just that the energy itself and then all of the techniques that you practice here.

And, and like you say, sometimes just not doing the things that you always do allows time for reflection and revelation to happen. And also just letting go of bad habits. I remember one guy came in a Bali retreat and he said, Gary, if [00:37:00] only, if the only thing I got here was just no phone, no emails and no demands or pressure from all my everyday life, he said, that would be enough.

He said, but I also got all these other stuff, but man, just eating good food and going to bed on time. He said, that was like, that would be powerful enough. That wasn’t even really part of the program at all. It was just something that happens. Of course, you eat good food and you’re, you know, you’re, you’re rising at the right times and going

Guy: to bed at the right times.

Yeah, yeah, no, fantastic. And what inspired you then to do your own retreat center itself? You know, cause it’d be, I guess it’d be kind of easy to, to continue to, you know, hire other places and venues and things, but you’ve created something very special here up in Byron Bay. What was the rationale behind that?

Gary: Yeah, the motivation was, um, I just, I’d always had this thing inside me saying, you know, you’ll, you’ll have a retreat someday. And, and so for years I’ve been dreaming about it and, and, and [00:38:00] collecting different things and um, include things I would include when one day I would have one. So I always knew that it was some, somewhere there.

And I think it was born of a few different needs. One, that there is a need for this work on the planet. There is a need for, um, you know, the space we’ve created that, and I think it’s, you know, it’s, there’s, we need a lot of these in the world, but I didn’t find any that I really liked. And that we’re, we’re set up right.

A lot of things are created and then someone buys them and goes, Oh, okay. We’ll just have to like, you know, make this place work. So, you know, you don’t find anything that was like a blank canvas that had a retreat in mind and a retreat that’s appealing as well. Because a lot of places that I’ve sort of heard about.

Um, I wouldn’t go to them personally because they don’t match my sense of like aesthetic that I kind of have programs that I feel like anchored in in ancient, uh, lineage and [00:39:00] culture and a deeply like authentic and spiritually efficacious. So I kind of felt like there wasn’t really much out there that I was drawn to or impressed by.

So I’ll just do it myself and me and my brother and, um, You know, he, he created the, the, the look of the place and he was instrumental. And, and then one of my clients, who’s also one of my best friends, he, he’s my, you know, my partner on, on SOMA. And so it just seemed like life did it really. I just was, you know, the midwife helping to bring it into the world.

Guy: Yeah, no, it’s a hell of an achievement mate. I really uh, congratulations on what you’re doing. It’s it’s uh, incredible Thank you. It’s it’s funny. Um, because I watched um, Nine perfect strangers with my wife and and I actually had no idea it was filmed at soma and then somebody told me and I was like Oh, I had a grand tour of your of your place because um, I I just wanted to watch it Just because it was the retreat industry and I was curious to see How it was portrayed and um, and [00:40:00] what came out of it You But yeah, I found, I found it fascinating.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re, yeah, we’re very fortunate to have those guys here. And the timing as well, because it was just the start of COVID and we weren’t running much, wouldn’t have been running many retreats, you know.

Guy: Yeah. But everything’s starting to open up for you now there? Yeah.

Gary: Yeah. We’re back rolling again, which is good.

Yeah.

Guy: Fantastic. Fantastic. Gary, um, I asked a few questions on the show. Uh, that I ask every week and, and, um, I’m always curious to know what comes out of them. But one thing I like to ask people is what’s been a low point in your life that you can reflect upon later that’s been a blessing? What springs to mind?

Gary: Yeah, when I was 21, yeah, when I was 21, yeah, burned out, stressed out, lost, um, didn’t know, didn’t know how to, uh, to fix things. And that’s when, yeah, I, I found the practice and the path and that changed everything. [00:41:00] And I see that that’s kind of like why life put me there, because that was exactly, exactly the, the, the shift I needed to make, you know, I needed to, to turn a corner and, um, I wouldn’t have been able to do that unless I struggled like majorly.

So I feel that, that was like one of the greatest blessings, you know, that, that, that’s, that suffering that, that I endured.

Guy: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. What does your

Gary: morning routine look like? Um, it varies cause I’ve got a couple of kids and, and they’re, they’re with, they move between me and my mum, their mum. Um, so it varies, but I generally, you know, wake up early.

I do the Ayurvedic routine often, scrape my tongue, brush my teeth, have a cleansing drink of water. We’ll often do Abhiyanga, which is the oil massage. Um, and then I’ll do a long meditation and then generally eat something healthy and start my day. [00:42:00] If the surf’s great, then I prioritize that and I’ll go and surf and, um, so that’s, and I’ll meditate on the beach or whatever it may be.

So I try to, um, kind of keep my, my life moving. I don’t like to be sort of locked in, but. Meditation’s always there. That’s definitely like a non negotiable. It’s something that, that I always, always do each and every day. And other times I’ll do, you know, breath work and Kriya sets. And, um, and I try to spend a portion of my day just in holy communion.

You know, just getting in touch with, with, um, the natural world. Because, you know, my land here is very, very beautiful. I’m on like 22 acres. So I try to, um, make sure that I tap in and Just get in touch with the land, what’s happening here and developing, you know, continuing to develop that relationship.

And when people come to the retreat, they realize, man, this land is, is very sacred land. So as, as the present custodian, I feel like, um, I’ve got a responsibility to, to, to, to, [00:43:00] yeah, to nurture and commune with it and, and just, uh, stay in touch each day.

Guy: Yeah, beautiful. It is a pretty special part of the world.

I’ve been up here about seven years, I think, and I can’t imagine myself going anywhere else. It’s kind of got that. Hold on me. .

Gary: Yeah. Ex. Yeah, exactly.

Guy: Yeah. Do you, have you surfed your whole life? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I am, yeah. It’s, it’s one thing. I grew up not near the, not really able to swim, not near the ocean, nothing, you know, culturally, it just wasn’t, it’s too cold in Wales, but, um mm-hmm

Yeah. It’s been a big part of my life these days. Yeah. I, I, I, I do get a slight bit of envy when I hear people that grew up surfing and that, and I’m like, wow, what a, what a

Gary: trip. I think that’s one of the greatest blessings to be born a surfer. Incredible.

Guy: Massively, massively. Most people I know that surf are pretty chilled out as well.

They kind of, you know, they live more in

Gary: the moment

Guy: without a doubt.

Gary: Yeah. It’s [00:44:00] a beautiful culture. You know, there’s so much to be said for it because, you know, you, you, you’re connecting with the ocean, which is beautiful and all the animals in the ocean, the dolphins, the turtles, I mean, a couple of sharks every now and again, um, and it is, it can be a spiritual practice because surfing, you know, you have to really harmonize yourself.

You have to like read a wave, you have to learn flow and you have to learn movement and how to adapt. Um, and when you go into the surf, it can be like peak hour traffic. There’s a lot of other people wanting to catch the waves and it can turn into a real shitshow. And, and, you know, the, the energy when there’s conflict in the water just spoils the experience.

So, um, as surfers, you, you have to learn to like read other people. And you, you also, it can be a really soulful pursuit. And often there’ll be great waves with a lot of people out, or there’ll be crappy waves with no one. And most people, if they’re honest, they’ll say, I prefer to surf the crap waves. Just [00:45:00] because when there’s a lot of people, it, it taints the experience.

It’s, it loses, it’s like, it’s, it’s ease, it’s grace, it’s, it’s pleasure and it’s, uh, you know, the, just the, the naturalness, it becomes like a frenzy. So surfers, you know, in the, you know, most surfers are really soulful. They want to have like a, you know, a really, um, unifying experience when they get into the ocean.

It’s where you leave the world behind, you go and you play and you have fun. So I feel it’s like. How I have the most fun and exercise at the same time. It’s incredible, like, because it’s not always those two things are united.

Guy: Yeah, no,

Gary: absolutely. The most pleasurable thing is the most healthful thing.

Guy: It’s funny you say all that, because reflecting on my journey of learning to surf, like I’ve got a longboard now and I can hop up and ride across the web, nothing exactly flash, but you know, it’s the only, it’s one of the few things that make me feel like a kid. You know, when I, when I catch that wave and I, and I light up [00:46:00] and, and this, but the, the, it’s, it’s been hugely challenging, like you say, overcoming the people and the crowds.

And it really makes me think about myself and how I’m behaving and, and where my confidence lies. And like you say, having to deal and work with other people and, and not get caught up in it all that, you know, I think that was the biggest challenge for me, not actually learning to surf, but overcoming the crowds and working with people.

When you’re out there, it was something I just didn’t expect.

Gary: Yeah. That’s the, that’s the biggest problem with surfing is just that there’s a, you know, there’s a finite number of waves that come through and a lot of people in the water. And, and so it does at times feel like you’re having to fight and hustle for waves and it takes completely away from the experience for me anyway.

Yeah. It’s just part of it. So yeah, you just go, that’s why surfers go on the quest and they travel to the far reaches of the earth, you know, travel for miles and miles and miles, getting multiple planes and [00:47:00] boats and cars. And then you’re like, okay, here I am on this outer, you know, reef and surfing these waves in the middle of nowhere.

It’s just such a wild pursuit or very adventurous people.

Guy: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Fantastic. Um, yeah. What has there been a book that’s made an impact on your life?

Gary: There’s been a lot of them. Yeah, there’s been a ton of them. I guess the first one, Autobiography of a Yogi was, was certainly, um, uh, a, a major influence.

I think Way of the Peaceful Warrior came next. Um, yeah. These were real game changers for me when I was younger, um, and then Yeah, the Bhagavad Gita is is a is a beautiful work There’s there’s been a lot. I’ve recently enjoyed the untethered soul. I thought that was really beautiful.

Guy: Yeah.

Gary: Yeah I can send also.

Yeah, Michael Singer and then the surrender experiment

Guy: [00:48:00] Yeah.

Gary: It was kind of very much his, his journey, like I would go on through Soma and everything that transpired to make that happen. And I was hearing his journal, like, Oh my God, there’s so many parallels. Of course. Yeah. And, and what really struck me was just how he was, um, just practicing surrendering to, to life.

And, uh, that’s kind of my, my philosophy, as I was mentioning earlier, just, uh, you know, what’s happening in me, what’s happening outside of me and what, what’s life queuing me to do. And so just. Mastering that, that dialogue, mastering that ability to listen. Yeah, for sure. So I think, um, those books are really, reinforce that for people.

Um, yeah. And there’s, there’s, uh, I think I’m very Vedic in, in what books touch me. Okay. So it’s mostly things to, to, to do with, do with the ancient wisdom.

Guy: Yeah. Fair enough. No, they’ll all, anyone listening to this, they’ll all be in the show notes as well. So people can dive back if they want to check any of them out.

Yeah. Great reads. And, um, [00:49:00] last question. With everything we’ve covered today, which has been quite a lot actually, um, what would you like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Gary: I would like people to learn to think critically would be, would be one thing, especially at this time. Um, that would be my big thing because that’s the reason people end up in trouble when they lose their powers of discernment, the ability to critically think, to question things. Um, you know, and to trust their own innate wisdom and not allow themselves to be dictated to by a power outside of themselves.

Beautiful.

Guy: Yeah.

Gary: Yeah, and if you believe in something, stand, stand for it.

Guy: Fantastic. If, um, People want to find out more about you, Gary. Where [00:50:00] can we send them?

Gary: Uh, they could, uh, I guess, follow me on Instagram, Gary Goro, or, um, follow Soma, which is also on Instagram, Soma. Byron. That’s probably the best two places to get in touch.

And they, even on the Soma website, somabyron. com. au, join the newsletter. They can also, Come and learn to meditate with me or do any of the retreats at Soma. So that would, that would be the best space to, to interact. Fantastic. And do you have a podcast

Guy: as well? Yeah, the Soma Collective podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

We’ll stick that in the show notes as well. You know. Okay. Thank you. Gary, thank you so much for giving me your time and coming on the show today. Um, so I’ve been glued mate. It’s, it’s been fantastic. And we, there’s so many things I didn’t even touch on. It just organically went in its own direction. Um, appreciate you sharing your wisdom for everyone, all of us here today and, and everything that you do in the world.[00:51:00]

Gary: Thank you too, man.

You’re yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for, thanks for inviting me on the show.

Guy: You’re welcome, Gary. Thank you.