Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Don: [00:00:00] I’m like, how can I possibly do this?

Guy: What blows my mind as well, Don, was that the amount of attention around the world, it was getting in that moment and it felt like you could never put it to bed. ’cause it’s constantly around.

Don: The only way out is through. And under having an understanding that we really are more than this skin soup.

We are spirit, we are multidimensional, we are consciousness. When I look at newspapers or look at the national news, it was international and it was because of who? Justine. Was in her life. The whole world was scratching their head gone away. What? How would a police officer in Minneapolis kill this amazing spiritual teacher?

Guy: The episode you’re about to watch has been republished. My podcast channel reaches a lot more people now and there’s certain episodes that [00:01:00] have slipped under the radar and I wanted to bring them up for your attention ’cause I truly feel they are worth listening to. So please be sure, let me know where you think of this episode in the comments below.

And of course, let’s continue to connect. Let me know where you are in the world and where you’re listening and tuning in from. Uh, I love reading it. It’s amazing, isn’t it, that we can do this. And the other thing I wanna say as well is find out where we are. If you wanna put your spiritual boots on and come and join us at one of our five day retreats or one day events around the world, links are below as well.

If you wanna find out more what we’re up to. Much love from me. Enjoy.

Guy: We’re recording. Don, welcome to the podcast.

Don: Thank you guy. Thank you for having me.

Guy: It’s absolute pleasure, mate. I, um, you know, it’s funny thinking about it. I’m, I’m always pondering about my podcast subconsciously, I think for, for years. It’s, it’s become innate to me. I’ve been record doing this for 10 years, mate.

You know what I mean? [00:02:00] And, um, and I remember, but a moment, it must have been in the shower or something. Not that I think of you when I’m in the shower too often, mate, but

Don: we’re off to a good start.

Guy: See? Yeah. About a year ago I was thinking, oh, I wonder, for some reason I thought about you coming on the show and I was like, I wonder if like, Don will come on or what a beautiful, and, and here you are today, you know, you reached out and it’s, I’m, I’m excited to see where it goes, mate.

I, I truly am. Um, and I will ask you that question. If you are the intimate dinner party and you sat next to a stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?

Don: I think I would ask them the, uh, I’d, I’d answer the question with a question, and that would be what, or a statement that would say, I would rather, uh, answer that saying who I am rather than what I do.

[00:03:00] And that to me would open the conversation the places I like to go, you know, really talk about who we are, um, what matters to our hearts. Um, yeah. You know, we’re our culture’s consumed with doing. And so as I’ve stepped away from doing the job for a while, I’m intrigued with being Yeah,

Guy: yeah. Amen to that, mate.

I can, I can so relate to that. You know, and it, it’s a segment I always use because it’s so hard to encapsulate. Who we are, what we do. And, and even when reading out bios and things like that, you know, we could, we could exactly make it up on the spot and put it out there, you know, so, and it’s always a great conversation starter.

So it’s come, it’s kind of become a thing for me. It is, yeah. So Love it. The, the, the first question I will ask you though, Don, is like, why, why now? You know, you reached out, you and to come on the podcast [00:04:00] and you know, you instigated this and which is just beautiful. And of course it’s like we’re here recording it.

What made you decide to, to reach out now?

Don: Yeah, good question, guy. I, I, um, you know, there’s a, there’s a, obviously all of us have a story to tell and I am intrigued and, uh, inspired to share my story, not because I’m so unique or special, but because, um. There’s certain things that certainly I’ve been through in my life and I’ll share those today and my journey of healing from those and about, it’s been five years since, um, since I lost, uh, my fiance at the time, uh, tragically.

And that five year journey has been, um, the most impactful [00:05:00] thing in my life, uh, without a doubt. And so I got to this five year mark and it felt really important to, to begin to share what’s happened. Five years felt like a significant number, and it wasn’t the number, it’s the point at which I feel like I’ve gotten to.

In that healing journey. And, uh, I recently gave a talk and I’m starting to do some writing and, um, wanted to share that. And, and Guy, you are, uh, you inspire me so much and the journey that you’ve been on, uh, stepping away from one career into a purpose and you, you really inspire me. So having a conversation with you is not just reaching out to anybody, it’s reaching out to somebody who really can get to the heart of the matter.

We share a lot of, uh. Similarities and we’re soul, soul brothers, man. So [00:06:00]

Guy: I deeply appreciate it. Thanks, man. I know, and, and I, I reflect upon, especially the last five years and knowing you probably for seven years, Don, you know, and, and the, the, the, the meetings that we’ve always had and caught up and the conversations and the depths of where they’ve gone, and as our lives have changed so much in that time, you know, in the trajectories we’ve, we’ve gone on and, um, it’s for me, honestly beautiful that we can hopefully capture some of that in this conversation today from the deeper conversations that we’ve had in the past for people to listen in and, and the feeling’s mutual and I, and I feel.

Maybe the best place to start then is to share a little bit about the journey, the story of what happened. So to give some context into the ways, into the heart that we’ll,

Don: yeah. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. Well, you know, you said seven years ago, you, uh, yourself and Linda, um, me and, uh, [00:07:00] Justine, who will talk about, um, some detail today, met at a, uh, meditation retreat.

And, um, I’m just, um, grateful that, uh, you obviously, uh, knew Justine and, um, we get to experience, uh, each other in that time. And, um, so, you know, setting it up in, in, um, in 2012, uh, I was. Devout student of Dr. Joe Dispenza, um, as, as were you, uh, certainly we were for a time and, uh, it was very impactful work that, that he was teaching.

And, um, for those who don’t know, Dr. Joe Dispenza, he. Teaches a sort of neuroscience, demystifying the mystical, uh, through science, but, um, really, uh, has evolved to, um, miraculous, uh, miraculous practices and, [00:08:00] um, that he’s, he’s teaching around the world. So in 2012, uh, being at a meditation retreat, one of some of the work that Dr.

Joe does is, um, we would step into creating our future and stepping into potentials. What is it we want to experience? And in those meditations, the, the ideas behind not just seeing it and the thoughts, but also the feelings and what does it feel like and thoughts and feelings. And Joe would say, thoughts, send the signal out, feelings, uh, draw the experience to you and the, um.

In this meditation. He said, what does your future look like? What do you want to create? And it was wide open. What do you want to create? And in this, we immerse ourselves into a beautiful meditation, throwing eye mask on amazing music. And there’s a collective power when you’re in these retreats. You know, at these, at that time, only had 500 people.[00:09:00]

Sorry, it sounds like a lot, but now he’s like 7,000 people on these retreats. And it was, I said, I want to create love. I want to know what real love is. So in my meditation, I immersed myself in this experience of what would love, feel like I had. I was probably, what was I? I dunno, that was 10 years ago, so I was 32.

Just kidding. I was 46. And I, I hadn’t been, I hadn’t been married. I’d been, you know, in long-term relationships, but none of them really, uh, were fulfilling in a way that I knew was possible. So in that meditation, I had an experience of what love would really feel like, what do I want to create? And I called that in.

And in this experience it was more, it was as real as our conversation is here, it was this experience with the thoughts and the feelings of what that feels like. And I, this image of a woman came in and it was [00:10:00] a blonde female. And I was like blonde. I really, up to that point, had only dated, uh, brunettes And, um.

Was just wasn’t attracted to blondes. The blondes aren’t beautiful. They are, but it was, my thing was, uh, dark haired, olive skin, that kind of thing. And it was my type, if you will. So this blonde female was there and we were laughing and it was light and joyful and so connected and honest and was, it was beautiful experience.

And I came outta that meditation and I was kind of surprised. I was like, blonde, wow. I didn’t, didn’t, I didn’t call that in. It just sort of, this image of this person emerged in my awareness. And after the meditation, um, we broke for a while and I went upstairs and I was in the lobby at this hotel talking with a friend of mine and, um, a woman who I hadn’t met up to that point, uh, walked up and it was [00:11:00] Justine and started talking with my friend and the minute she walked up, I said, that’s her.

That’s, that’s the woman in my meditation, that that’s her, it wasn’t just who she looked like physically, it was the frequency and this recognition. And I know those who have had that know what I’m talking about, but it was purely a 100% a recognition of kind of like, there you are, not just of the meditation, but my soul recognizing her is the only way I can describe it.

And from that point, I kind of followed her around like a puppy dog, you know, she was kind of like, yeah, hi, you know, nice to see you. But she wasn’t, wasn’t interested, engaging in the way that I wanted to engage with her. And, but clearly there was a, a connection and, um. So that was 2012. I did have a chance to talk to her, but I didn’t tell her how I was feeling about her.

And then [00:12:00] she, she left, uh, a group of us got together the next day. We went skydiving, and then she went back to Australia. She was a Australian, lives in Sydney. And, um, we, um, friend of mine said, asked me when she left, looked at me kind of like this and goes, what do you think of Justine? And I said, uh, I’m in love.

And he went, what? Didn’t you just meet her yesterday? I’m like, I don’t know, man. I, I’m, that was, that was something else. So, uh, had a chance to tell Justine, you know, what, how I felt about six months later told her that nobody had had the impression on me that she had had. And then I didn’t hear back from her.

This was in an email. Uh, and believe it or not, though, you know, people say, wasn’t your heart broken? And I’m thinking, no, I, I knew like, there was a knowing with this that I, um, I hadn’t experienced up to that point. [00:13:00] And so fast forward now another 14 months, I didn’t reach out to her. ’cause not hearing back, I was like, okay, there’s, she’s, she’s not ready to have that conversation.

And she reached out, um, in 2014 and just did start having a conversation, Hey, how are you? That kind of thing. And um, from there we started to talk more and more on Skype, you know, and her being in Sydney, um, you know, we know how difficult it is to connect in the states. I think it was like a 15 hour difference.

So yeah, we, um, we started then to fall in love and we had a conversation in that August of. Knowing that this was something beyond just friendship. And, uh, in that conversation where I admitted that, I said, back in 2012, I love you or I love her to my friend. I, um, I [00:14:00] told her about that and I said, I want you to know that this is what I said when you left that day that I was in love.

And I came back from that trip telling my friends, I met my future wife. I, I, I knew it was, and they all said, oh, I wanna, I wanna meet her. And I said, well, she lives 9,000 miles away. But, um, you know, I knew it was, I just knew, and in that first conversation, telling her how I felt, it was like the skies opened and there were rainbows and unicorns.

Literally like, you know, there was that kind of magic experience and telling her how I felt and then she. Reciprocated. It’s like we fell into it together. It was love, this energy of love. And from there we um, decided to meet for our first date in Maui, kind of meet halfway and it was beautiful. It was, um, [00:15:00] magical.

And then I went to Sydney and met her family in October and then in January or December she came and that’s when I, uh, proposed and uh, really it was December of 2014. And then in January she went back and then we made a decision for her to move to the States in March. It was just easier. At the time she was a dual citizen with Australia, so rather than me getting, going through the complexity of getting a visa in Australia, they don’t make it easy there, buddy.

Um, we made the decision for her to move to the states and. Um, you know, my son was in college and he wasn’t quite ready for me to move that far away that that soon. So it was, I was grateful that she was willing to do that. And so she moved to, to Minnesota and we lived together in a beautiful neighborhood with amazing people around us near the lakes.

She was in love with the lakes and, and, um, [00:16:00] she found her people and her purpose and started teaching, doing a bit of what you do, uh, with retreats and um, sharing her deep wisdom and knowledge, uh, about the heart and about spirit. And um, so I’m gonna fast forward a couple years in the interest of, we only have an hour because this love story could take up that whole hour.

Um, no,

Guy: you took me down memory lane as well. Don. I’ll just say it ’cause I remember Justine, I remember Justine, um, announcing you, ’cause we, um. Did six weeks together with Matt Omo, who I work with. We did his, yep. Every, every Saturday with about 20 of us would go through the sessions and, and through that six weeks.

And I’ll never forget her saying, I’ve, I’ve met my man, I’m, and she announced it on the sixth week to All, to all of us. Like, like

just, yeah. Beautiful. I just reliving it now as you share it, but sorry. You pleased, right? [00:17:00] Yeah,

Don: yeah. No, no. That’s, um, important to give context. ’cause you have personal, you know, you knew Justine and she was so Well of course, yeah.

Known in the community in Australia teaching her, um, soul sessions and, um, so for her to leave that for love was a big, huge step, you know, to come to America. Um. And so, um, you know, I was working in the, uh, for a Native American tribe, um, as a general manager, uh, running a large casino resort, uh, operation.

And, um, made in 2017, uh, we were looking at some new ventures. And so the place to go when you’re in that industry to look at what’s happening in the industry is Las Vegas. So I didn’t go, I didn’t travel a lot for work, but, um, made the decision that I was gonna go for on a [00:18:00] Friday, um, into, to Las Vegas for, uh, two nights to look at some products and systems that they had there.

And it’s unusual for me to leave on a weekend, but. Um, so I went to Las Vegas, uh, with my boss and a colleague and, um, she was home alone and, you know, doing her thing. And, um, things were good. We talked during the day and, um, yeah, she was working on, uh, we were working on a beautiful program, uh, for Dr. Joe.

Um, and we talked, uh, that evening and pretty much just said goodnight, you know, uh, it was two hours earlier in Las Vegas, so we had some work in front of us to do and she, uh, went off to bed and, um, as we were visiting some properties that evening, uh, she called me and, um, which was kind of surprising, and she called me and she said, I’m hearing a noise in the [00:19:00] back alley now in Minneapolis, where we live near the lakes, all single family homes, middle, upper class, like a beautiful neighborhood.

Uh, very, very safe. And, um, you don’t, it’s not a, an area where you hear gunshots. Um, the occasional police siren, but like any city, she said she heard a noise in the back alley. And we heard it was a noise of a woman who it sounded like she described as sex noises and that the woman wasn’t enjoying it.

And she said, it’s, it’s troubling. It’s troubling me. And, um, I said, okay, well, uh, and then she said, I think I just heard the woman call for help. I said, okay, then I want you to call the police. And so directed her to do that. And I said, um, hang up. Call the police and then call me back. So, hung up. She called me back and, um.[00:20:00]

Uh, you know, I, I, I’m not really sure what she was doing if she was going in the backyard to listen closer, but I, you know, said, stay put. Uh, the police will be there. And then she, um, she said, I’ll call you back when they get here. I said, okay. So she called me back and she said, they’re still not here. So she called 9 1 1 again, and then while we were on the phone, she said, okay, they’re here.

And she hung up. And, um, it, I said, okay, obviously call me back. And we had arrived where we were going. We were looking at these, um, nightclubs that we were considering, um, putting into the property I was working at. So we were out kind of late. This was 1130 at night, uh, in Minneapolis. So nine 30 in Vegas time.

And, um, as we were [00:21:00] driving, um, my phone went dead, so I plugged it in and put it in the car. And then, um, we went, walked into this property and I kept looking at my phone going, I, I, I’m not sure what’s happening. Why wouldn’t she have called me back by now? So I text her and um, and then we met with the individuals we were with, and I was, I kept, um, I text her my friend’s phone too, in case my phone didn’t have reception.

And, um, I kept asking him, did she call you? Text you, you know, ’cause I’m not getting anything. And he said, no. And I, in my gut, I knew something was wrong. I, I, I knew it, but I couldn’t fathom, I just couldn’t fathom all I could, all I could make up in my mind was she was nothing a non-issue and she went to sleep.

You know, that’s the only story I was capable of making up the time. So, um. Fast forward. I didn’t hear from her. I called [00:22:00] her and text her and was like, you know, it’s odd, but she’s asleep. So, um, my friend and I got back to our hotel. We went down to watch a band in the hotel, and I got a call and from a Minneapolis number and because, you know, I didn’t recognize the number, but I, I answered it.

So the phone number, I didn’t recognize it, and I answered the phone and it was a Minneapolis police department. And this moment, um, was, was I can go back and relive this exact moment. And he said, um, you know, where are you? I said, well, I’m in Las Vegas. He said, when are you gonna be home? I said, in, in a day or two days.

And he, I said, wow, what’s going on? He goes, well, there was a, um, a shooting. You know, he asked me, is, is Justine your. Uh, significant other. I said, yes. He said there was a shooting. And, um, we believe Justine is [00:23:00] deceased at that moment. That’s how he, that’s how he reported to me what had happened. And I didn’t know anything, but it was as if the matrix went, like there was just this reset of a reality that now existed, a timeline that was not even a potential in my mind.

I’m like, wait a minute, what? And I immediately went into shock and I’m walking around this. A busy casino in Las Vegas trying to get him, because I couldn’t get reception and walking around, I’m going, wait a minute. What? What do you mean? What are you talking about? How, how, how is this possible? He said, look, I, I can’t tell you anymore.

Just the fact that, um, we believe that she’s deceased. I’m like, what do you mean you believe it? You have to tell me more. What happened? I’m, I’m demanding you tell me more. And, and getting poor reception and trying to find a spot where I can talk. And I, it was, it was, it was so, uh, [00:24:00] insane. Like beyond what any, any person or parent that has that happened where somebody tells them suddenly died.

Someone died suddenly knows that sort of the, the realities collapse and.

So I ended up getting off the phone with him and I went to tell my friend, uh, she’s been shot, I gotta get to the airport. And he is like, what, what? It’s now almost one in the morning. So I pack up my shit. We take off to the airport. I’m in shock at this point, and the airport’s closed. So we’re sitting at the airport and then the police call me at like three in the morning and they say, this was, this was, um, we want you to know this was a police shooting.

And me being in shock, all I said was, [00:25:00] please take care of her body. Please take care of her. I, I didn’t even, I, I didn’t even ask details. I was like, just please, please take care of her and I’ll be home. I’m trying to get on a plane and ended up flying home in that morning trying to call people. And it was, I’m the one telling people what had happened.

Um, I didn’t understand it, of course, but calling my mom, calling her father in Australia couldn’t get ahold of him, calling others. I couldn’t get any neighbors. All my neighbors were gone or not answering their phone. Um, I just couldn’t, I, I couldn’t find out what the hell happened. I tried and, um, so flew home and arrived in Minneapolis and collapsed into my friend’s arms who met me at the gate.

I went [00:26:00] downstairs and my son and a friend was waiting for me, and I collapsed into their arms and they were just like, it’s the saddest, most tragic, traumatic experience imaginable, you know? And needless to say, um, over the next, uh, I don’t know, days, weeks, you know, we come to find that this officer, um, shot her at the end of the alley.

So it appeared that Justine had seen the police car on, on the call, walked down the alley, and for whatever reason, the officer just shot her and it was the passenger officer, not the driver. And she came to the driver’s side window. So, um, and Guy, I knew, I knew what had happened. I don’t know how, I don’t know if I just tuned into the whole thing, but there is, there is an [00:27:00] intuition and a knowing that I’m like, the officer just got afraid and the officer shot her.

I mean, she was in pink koala bear pajamas for God’s sakes. You know, like. I don’t know what was threatening about that, but, um, yeah, one shot to the abdomen and over the course of, I didn’t know this at the time, how soon she had died. We didn’t know anything. They didn’t tell us anything, you know, police shootings.

It’s this, um, deep investigation and, um, there’s a wall of silence really. And we lived through that wall of silence, they call it the blue wall of silence. And, um, didn’t know now for nine months if they were gonna charge the officer with murder or not. Um, and finally after nine months found out that yes, indeed they were gonna charge him eight and a half months, something like that.

And, [00:28:00] um, so now we knew there was a, a court case that was looming in a year would be the first trial a whole year. So you’re sitting in this limbo. Sitting in this deepest sads grief of what you know. And, and in that time period, even before the trial, it was this, the deepest grief where every thought was, was pain.

Every single thought was, oh, Justine would love that pain. Oh, Justine and I went to that restaurant Pain, the back gate. Imagine you’re walking out the back gate when they drove by the alley. Pain, just pain, pain, pain. Every thought was consumed with this deep term of trauma. Really it is trauma. And in that time, I had a, I had a yoga community and um, they had said it’s, I think you should work [00:29:00] with a healer and.

I’m like, I’ll do anything. I don’t know what to do, but I’ll do anything. And I worked with this healer, um, and it helped lift some of that trauma. Didn’t help lift the sadness and the grief. But the other thing is that I had is I had this community of people in from Dr. Joe, um, who knew Justine, and they all put their arms around me.

And you were one of those, you were one of those that there were certain people who showed up in a way that, um, I probably, I don’t know that I would’ve been great friends with some of these folks, had this not happened, but people showed up in a caring, present, persistent, loving way, and that I, I call it picking me up and carrying me on their shoulders.

And you know, those calls, for example, the guy [00:30:00] that you made. Hey, how are you? Hey mate, just checking in. How are you doing? How are you doing? Wanna make sure you know you’re 9,000 miles away? Believe me when I say that love and care is a palpable, real thing that I experienced. That it, it works. It, it is a real thing.

It’s not a word. It’s not just a gesture. It is felt. And I felt it. And I remember early on there was this outpouring of love from the community. Just unbelievable outpouring of love. And it was, um. It was again, that palpable feeling. And I was like, God, no, I can’t accept that. I, I can’t accept all these people coming to the house feeding us gifts, cards, cards, like stacks of cards from all over the world, you know?

And I was like, I can’t accept all this. And then [00:31:00] I realized I can, because by me accepting it, it, it allows me to give to them. And that’s the only way I could really reconcile by accepting so much love and generosity was by accepting it. I’m giving. And it was the flow of the infinity symbol, you know, that it’s giving and receiving.

And if I shut the flow off of not accepting that I’m stopping the whole flow. So, um, profound. And, and you know, we only have an hour ’cause I could spend an hour just talking about this process, but. Um, you know, we had four, four memorials for her. We had really a private memorial in, in, um, several weeks later of, um, uh, [00:32:00] letting, letting her go.

And, um, we had a very public memorial, private memorial, um, and there were one in Australia. So it was, it was a level of intensity and emotionality and like deep, deep expression and connection. And it was, it was profound and painful. Yet you just move forward. You just move forward. And I remember one night the pain was so great, I was like, it’s, I, I don’t think I can do this.

It’s just the. Sharpest hot pain. I’m like, how can I possibly do this? And I remember I grabbed my phone and I just opened the page to something and was like looking at stuff and there was this message that came through on Facebook or something and it said, the only way out is through.

Hmm.

Don: [00:33:00] And that, believe it or not, there’s these little things that get you, carry you.

And that was one of ’em that reminded me that the only way out is through. And what that meant for me was, you know, having years of meditation practice. I was so grateful that I was able to understand and walk in the, what I call the 3D and maybe the five D, the world of, uh, beyond the physical. And so, um, just remembering.

And under having an understanding that we really are more than this skin suit that we are, we are spirit, we are, um, multidimensional, we are consciousness. Um, and having that experience and belief is what also carried me through. I understand why people turn to faith [00:34:00] when they suffer a tragedy, because sometimes it’s all we have, but it’s also, it’s, it’s because there’s a truth there.

Then we know that at that moment to go to that truth of we are so much more than this. Mm-hmm. In this dimension.

Guy: What blows my mind as well, Don when I, when I think about your circumstances and everything that went on, was that. Just the, the amount of attention around the world it was getting in that moment, and for somebody, yourself and the families and every, it’s, it, it felt like you could never put it to bed, you know, because you, it’s constantly around constantly.

Like do you know constantly?

Don: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There was, there was, and there’s no ability like to step away from it. You know, I look at [00:35:00] newspapers or look at the national news, um, you know, my picture with her saying bride to be murdered in Minneapolis and, you know, um, my name showing up in newspapers and, uh, the story, it was international and it was, um, because of its nature, because of who?

Justine. You know, was in her life. And it was like the whole world was scratching their head going, wait, what, what, how, how would a police officer in Minneapolis kill this, this amazing spiritual teacher? And, um, so yeah, the, the, then the trial began in 20 19, 2 years, almost two years after she died. And so the trial went for about a month, and, um, they convicted this officer of, of, um, third degree murder [00:36:00] and second degree manslaughter, which means, uh, third degree means.

He didn’t really know what he was shooting at, but he shot anyway and killed the person. Um, and manslaughter is, um, an act where perhaps he didn’t mean to kill somebody, but you do it. Uh, so he was convicted of that and then went to prison, and then they appealed it. And, um, but once the trial ended, it was like, okay, now I can begin to heal.

Two years after she died, now I can begin to heal. And um, and last year the appeal came through and they won their appeal. And, um, the officer Mohammad nor got out of, uh, prison, well, he didn’t get out of prison immediately, but he, uh, the murder charges was overturned. And in that point, they then have victim statements, victim statements.

When they, when he went to jail, it was, uh, the [00:37:00] opportunity to speak to him and to the judge. And then they had another opportunity to do that. And having had now four years since she died, I thought, what do I want to say to him? You know, he’s now gonna get outta jail in a few months as opposed to another eight years.

What do I wanna say? And I, I have a, a history of, um, understanding when I was very young, I got into 12 steps, uh, around alcohol and drugs. I was in my twenties and understood the importance of forgiveness. And that forgiveness wasn’t so much for the other person as much as to unburden ourself. And when this opportunity to speak to him in that trial of re-sentencing after they dropped the murder charge, uh, I made the decision to, to forgive him.

And it [00:38:00] wasn’t easy. And again, uh, there was somebody who helped me. Walk through that. Uh, my first statement, I, I read it to a friend of mine before I was gonna do this, and it was what I call a shame and blame sandwich. It was, um, blaming him, forgiving him, and then shaming him. And she read it and she said, are you really gonna forgive him?

Is this, is this what the, I mean, do you really wanna forgive him? Then you, you lose these sections and you just, you know, so I, um, I heard that, and so I, uh, I, I read that statement to court in court and, and unburdened myself and what, you know, there was confusion from some about why I would forgive somebody for that.

But forgiveness does not mean you condone it. Forgiveness does not mean you are fully accepting of it. [00:39:00] But forgiveness says, I don’t want to carry this in my heart. I don’t want to carry that, that black ugly hate. And every time its name would come up, I was, I would say, you know, you, you know, and, and I, I gotta admit, even though I’ve done the forgiveness, there aren’t still, there are still times I say still, you, you know, but I, I have released him.

I have released him from my heart. I don’t carry that longer. Um, and I asked him to do, I, I just asked him to make a better life as a result of this, to do some good, to give meaning to this loss. And, you know, there, there is no defining moment where I was like, oh, this, this makes sense. Um, in terms of making [00:40:00] meaning of how such a random, tragic thing could happen.

So I’ve found little ways where I have, um, found beautiful things that happened that wouldn’t have happened had she not, uh, been killed. And one of those was we put a bench up by this creek in Minneapolis, uh, by the Minha Creek. And that was the area where we had our first conversation where we expressed love to one another.

So it was a very meaningful place. And I had a bench put there, the city put it there and I put a plaque on there. And the plaque just has her name in memorial with Justine. And it says, um, love is never lost. And that is important to me. ’cause love doesn’t, isn’t diminished through the death. If, if anything, grief is the expression of love.

And, um, I went to that bench one day. Uh, af probably in [00:41:00] 2021 I was gonna go sit on her bench and I saw this family walking toward the bench across the creek. I was gonna go around and sit there and I was like, at first I was disappointed ’cause they were heading right toward the bench and sat on that bench.

And so I just sat down on the grass across the creek and just watch them. And this family had this moment of, of connection that dad was taking the child, throw ’em up in the air and the kid was laughing and the mom laid in the dad’s lap. And it was a loving, beautiful family moment. And I took from that, this, that, that moment couldn’t have happened, had that bench not been there.

And it’s just a little way that I could find some small gift in Justine’s death. Um. You know, and, and of course there was so many moments of love and connection and, um, [00:42:00] that wouldn’t have otherwise been, but that’s one of those profound moments where I was like, you know, maybe doesn’t give the, the complete total moment of, um, how something like this could happen.

But, um, what, you know, and part of the story I wanted to tell today, guys, that, you know, I tried to, I tried to work with the city on bringing, um, meditation to, um, to the police force because what I knew and learned in trial is that had this officer, former officer, I guess had this former officer known how to regulate his emotions, he would’ve just taken one more breath.

He wouldn’t have pulled that trigger. To be so afraid that any person walks up to that window and you to shoot ’em is being [00:43:00] unable to regulate your emotions and your fear. And they have a terrible job, don’t get me wrong, but there’s no training around how to regulate themselves. You know, I think they spend probably 10 to one on deescalation versus shooting a gun and, um, practicing, shoot, no shoots, but very little around how to regulate their emotions and meditation.

So I tried to bring that to the city and, and then George Floyd happened in Minneapolis. And if you don’t know George, the George Floyd story, you know, certainly, I don’t know how you wouldn’t, but same police department. Uh, he’s killed. And then the city was on, basically, literally on fire and police officers started to resign.

And, um, I realized I had to walk away from trying to bring meditation to this police force because, uh, they were in [00:44:00] survival and they weren’t ready for that. And my hope is that one day they will be, they’re, they’re hiring a new police chief as we speak in the city. Um, and that was part of my healing journey in letting go because I wanted to find meaning.

I wanted to find greater meaning in it. And I was sad and disappointed that I couldn’t find that with within this. And really, I think that, um, in time that can happen. In time. I, I hope that, that, that will happen. And I, I will continue to try and work when the time is right. Uh, but that was a letting go for me.

Like I had to let go and really focus on my healing journey. And so within my, within my journey, I, um, I didn’t think I’d ever love again, guy. I didn’t [00:45:00] think my heart was capable of that. And, um, I thought, and even thought that would, is a room in my heart for that. ’cause it was such a beautiful love. And I, um, I, I then, uh, met a woman in 2021 and my heart exploded.

It’d been almost four years since Justine was gone. I was still grieving, deeply grieving. And was able to, even as I was falling in love with, um, my now fiance, Taryn, I was, I was grieving with her and crying with her and she held space for that and held space for that pain and beautifully like, how challenging to be falling in love with somebody and yet they’re [00:46:00] holding the space.

Um, you are experiencing your pain and loss and grief for another person. And she just loved me through it. Um, and uh, and it’s, you know, and it’s been challenging for her to be the other woman, you know, ’cause Justine was, was bigger than life. She became bigger than life in death. But, um, it was so much a part of my why I gave this talk recently called The Capacity of the Heart.

And the talk really was, um, around my ability of my heart to hold all that, to hold the sadness, to hold the love of Justine, the hold, the love of Taryn. I was holding all of it and, and it wasn’t diminished. The heart can hold [00:47:00] all of it, and it was, it, it was incredible remembering and thinking about, oh, will this be diminished in experiencing all the love?

So, um, I am blown away, which is why I called it the capacity of the heart it should be, is unlimited. It’s really what the, um. What the truth is, uh, it’s unlimited. And so, um, you know, truth be told, are are there moments that I’m still sad? Absolutely. Are there moments I still get mad? Yes. Um, so

Guy: we are rerecording if you are watching this on YouTube right now or listening, you might have noticed a, a complete stop in the conversation and I haven’t [00:48:00] miraculously changed the color of my shirt or the background of where Don is sitting right now, but we, uh, had a couple of technical issues with the dropouts, we decided to rerecord.

So it’s about three days later and we’re gonna pick up the conversation from where we left off. Mm. And yeah, there are no accidents, so I’m excited to see where this is. Welcome back, Don. Thank you.

Don: Thank you. It’s go. Good to be here. And thanks for. Going through the ride of technical challenges, wifi headphones, microphones, all the bit, but none of it stops what we want to create here.

Yeah.

Guy: Yeah. So let’s pick up the conversation where, wherever you feel Yeah, where, where we, where we need to be right now. Sure.

Don: You know, in the, uh, you know, was sharing with, with you the, the, [00:49:00] the journey, what’s I call the healing journey. And that journey is, is been, um, as I said, surrounded by so much love.

So many people have an outpouring of support. And I’m so grateful for all that I, I couldn’t have done it without, without people reaching out. And so when I, uh, I was working with a coach, um. And she was taking me through some, some work actually Justine had done. But I was working with this coach and the last session that we had was, she said, um, I said, I think I’m ready to open my heart to someone.

And I kind of held this space in my heart, a space that was reserved for, I felt like magic, but in my mind I thought, well, nothing can ever be like, you know, as magical as it was with [00:50:00] Justine and I. Um, so I said that to her and two weeks later I went to a, uh, a Medicine Journey meditation retreat. And, um, during that retreat.

Uh, I met Taryn, and I may have been repeating myself here a little bit, but I’m giving more context that, um, in the scope of meeting her and falling in love, and immediately, uh, I was aware that I was afraid that it would diminish other parts of me, and yet I was blown away and so shocked at how it could hold all of it.

It could hold this new, beautiful love and it could hold all the love and all the pain and all the, the magnitude and the amplification of what I walked through recently. [00:51:00] And I was, I was blown away. And I remember being with Taryn at that retreat, and I, I looked at her having known her for a couple hours and I just said, this is love.

Love And um, and, and it, the reason I share so much about that is because it was this ability for the heart to hold. All this is so magnificent. And so what I wanna talk about a little bit is, um, what also happened for me is I’m a long time meditator and I’ve been meditating guy like you for a long, long time.

And I head of a ANA practice and Dr. Joe I’d studied with at the time for, I don’t know, 10 years. And, um, I was really aware of how I could go so [00:52:00] deep. You know, I mean, you, first time I met you, you had a profound experience. You know, you were like, I dunno if I should go into this. And I don’t know if you ever shared that on this podcast, but, um, you know.

I had not had that type of experience. I had beautiful experiences, but what plant medicine, specifically psilocybin did for me was it opened something in me. It created connections that I couldn’t quite make in meditation and something really beautiful and deep happened in taking those. And what I’d say about, you know, there’s the, certainly what I can share about the, the journeys themselves, but I.

Also what’s happened is my meditations have been so much deeper and so much more profound since making those connections in the brain. I think Michael Pollan recently released so much [00:53:00] information, has opened this dialogue about plant medicines so beautifully, and in saying shows that the brain before plant medicine and there’s sort of this activity, this certain amount, then he shows the brain while on psilocybin and the connections are thousand fold and there’s touching and connections made in the brain that couldn’t have maybe been able to have been accessed.

Well, for me, speaking of myself, for myself, I, I couldn’t make those. Deep, mystical, profound connections. And so there is that part of it, but there’s also like this amazing review of what happens. And this review, what it was revealing to me, this, there’s an intelligence in this medicine. It’s just this beautiful intelligence.

And it showed me the first time I was even on it, um, had tried it, it showed me how, where all the areas in my life, [00:54:00] my heart had been not fully opened. And it wasn’t like a, it wasn’t a shaming or blaming. It was the most beautiful reveal of all the ways which I hadn’t opened my heart. And it, it, it, it had me in tears and not tears of sadness, but tears of awareness of how much more there is.

To opening our hearts and how I closed off. And in that review, um, like I said, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, I didn’t come out of it feeling bad. I came out of it feeling in wonder of, of what a gift it was to see how much more I can open my heart. And so fast forward about five months is when I met Taryn. And, um, [00:55:00] a beautiful, uh, very, uh, fast, uh, relationship, uh, unfolded and it was just this magnitude that we were following.

We weren’t even creating it. We were like, we were being pushed. There was something so powerful in pushing this that we were called to do. I, I call that like the soul, the soul was driving the, the bus for both of us because it made no sense, you know, it made zero sense. But, um, yeah, and meeting her, um, was magic and profound, and it was compelling.

That’s the word I use. It was so powerfully compelling that I, I had to follow it. And I’ve come to find that, um, you know, in that there are so many amazing lessons, like in the plant [00:56:00] medicine where it revealed how my heart had not been fully, maybe fully opened. I. The relationships are in the same way.

These teachers, you know, these mirrors for us that are so incredibly powerful and anyone in a relationship I know knows exactly what I’m talking about. Um, our partners holding up that mirror and, um, it, it’s incredibly transformative if we let it. As I continued to, um, uh, I then began to facilitate, uh, some journeys, uh, at a center, uh, with plant medicines.

And I just saw profound things happening. Profound, like these healings that would’ve taken years of therapy, people coming to realize and coming to see. I. What stops them [00:57:00] coming to see the wounds of their hearts that they had buried a life of trauma is revealed and shown a path of healing. And I had to witness miraculous healings.

And, you know, I, I’ve done years of therapy in my life. I don’t have anything against therapy. But what I’ll say is that the speed and the power of what gets revealed, there’s an intelligence that gets, that reveals what the healing journey is through these incredibly intelligent medicines. I describe it like this, that, um, if you’re playing, if, if life is a video game, you know, and you all know video games, donkey Kong, some of those shows how dated I am, but um.

If you’re playing this game, we’re going through life and you know, you’re picking up these things to get life. Oh, I’m gonna pick up this wisdom here and I’m gonna pick up, uh, this life experience here. And [00:58:00] along the way, there’s these little mushrooms that are growing, you know, and there’s other plant medicines, beautiful ones, but I use that one as a visual example.

And you pick that up, and now you have secrets to the game. Now you’re revealing the, they downloaded all this intelligence and these treasures that get you to another level. And, um, video games are a metaphor, you know, for, for life. And so incredible. Go ahead.

Yeah, no,

Guy: I’m just reflecting on everything you, you shared there, Don.

And I can, I can certainly relate to the openings within you and having a new reference point. Then it’s almost as if there’s a gene expression or new neuro pathway to created or sprouted. And then you know how to go back there. And you have that new reference point where we never had it before. [00:59:00] I, I, ’cause I did, um, an ayahuasca journey in 2013 and I was terrified.

Terrified of doing it and going in through, it was bringing up old traumas for me that, um, that was my first night of surrender. But then I had this profound, profound experience, so mystical and oneness with the universe and just like, wow. Uh, and then, but then there was a part of me that was like. Well, was that the, the medicine or was that me or, so I actually set the intention to go on a quest to see if I could return there without the medicine.

And I think that’s why I ended up having profound experiences. ’cause I had kind of once had a taste of it, but then navigated my way there through meditation instead on that. Yeah. So many things ring true for me, you know, that’s what I’m curious to know as well, [01:00:00] Donna. Which even I remember when you came to our retreat, you know, it was our first retreat, our maiden voyage, and you and brought your, Zach, you sent Zach there and we were all together.

It was like a reunion for three days, which was so beautiful. And, and your your willingness to just surrender and go there and even. Because I think about my journey and it brought up so much fear for me going there the first time. And then I see, no, you don and what you’ve been through and, uh, you know, was there a point where you, you knew that it’s time or did it, was it gradual to, to, to be willing to go there and do that work because we, you know, the only way out is through and, you

Don: know, you Yeah.

Yeah. And when you say the work, do you, do you mean like specifically plants or do you mean just doing the work? Like, I mean, I think in, in everything ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ve been, I’m a, in [01:01:00] everyday life in

Guy: the moments. Mm. Oh yeah.

Don: Well, I, I think I said early on, um, hoping it got captured, but that I was aware that.

I was so grateful that I wasn’t just in the 3D in my life that I had been, had meditation experiences and understood being multidimensional and had an understanding and experience of that through meditation. And although it deepened after plant medicines, uh, ex exponentially, I was grateful that I had that because I was aware that we, we do go on, we, we are, we are more than this skin suit.

And if anything, I love this saying, this is actually the illusion. You know, this is the illusion. The reality is when we’re able to step toward. [01:02:00] What’s beyond this, and it’s scary. You mentioned ayahuasca. It is people who do ayahuasca. My hat’s off to you, man. Like it is scary because you face demons and Aubrey Marcus talks about his first journey and it showed him all the ways like he could die.

That doesn’t sound so pleasant. But then I kind of laughed and said, but you’re not gonna die. You’re not gonna die now. Um, it, it’s, it is scary, but I’ve always been willing, always been willing, like, come into your workshop and, um, having my son there and that was my first ice back. And remember, I’ll never forget you teaching the breath.

And that was really one of the first immersions I, I’d done pranayama and yoga and, which is, you know, so much of the breath. But that breath practice was deeply, deeply. I. Impactful with the idea that we’re then gonna go into an ice bath with where you dumped in like 200 pegs of ice, [01:03:00] you know? Um, but I believe in, in those types of retreats so deeply because it’s about us reaching parts of ourselves that may be unavailable or inaccessible until we get with others.

And there’s a collective power in those groups, you know, in meditation and breath work and yoga and the sound healing that Matt does was just, you know, so profound. And the, but there’s a collective, uh, energy that propels us upward. And opens us even more. You know, we can do this work by ourselves and click on YouTube and there are certainly a ton of resources, but there’s no substitute for the power of collective groups coming together.

Um, and, [01:04:00] and one of the things I think that the pandemic has taught us is that, that collective power is non-local. So it doesn’t mean we necessarily have to do them in person. Um, but getting on with the technology and jumping on Zoom, uh, I do a weekly meditation class and it’s incredible what happens.

You know, we’re just connecting, sharing and stepping in together. And, uh, it’s deeper, you know, um, where two or more are gathered. There’s truly, uh, amazing things that can happen. And, and I’ve been in groups. For years and years, decades really, you know? So, um, yeah, I, I, um, I also want to share that I believe, um, I was just on a phone with, um, a family friend and the family friend is going through an incredibly hard time [01:05:00] and what I shared with him was that this difficult journey that he’s on it because it’s so difficult, can be his greatest opportunity for his evolution.

And one of the things I learned doing 12 step groups, uh, in my twenties was I. How many there was, um, people who described there from shame to grace. You know, they had shame about their things and then they see how much grace there is. And it became one of their biggest gifts to describe their darkest moments of drinking and addiction, to evolving to this beautiful place of gratitude and connection and openness and healing.

And, you know, the 12 steps are such a gift from, you know, I mean, [01:06:00] they’re god, they’re divine. These are divine steps of living. And, um, but from the darkness to the light, you know? And so from my darkness of losing Justine to stepping into this amazing. Evolution, this amazing unfolding of who I am. And part of why I wanted to get on this podcast with you, and I’m so grateful to be able to share this with you guys, is that, um, I want people to know at that moment, like I just told this family friend that just trust, just go fully into this thing and go through it and trust that there’s something greater on the other side.

This, this third dimension we’re in. It’s fucking hard, man. This is not an [01:07:00] easy dimension. This is not an easy place. Um, but it is the difficulties. It came really clear to me and, and actually in a, in a plant journey that the greater the difficulty and trauma even can be one of our greatest, uh, evolutionary processes.

I see this father. If you, some of you may be familiar with the Parkland shooting down in Florida where, uh, it was a mass shooter and lots of young children were tragically killed by a gunman. There’s one father who’s on a crusade. He showed up at the State of the Union. He showed up at the hearings for Supreme Court, uh, nominees.

He’s showing up. He’s, he is on a mission. This man, his life will never be the same, but he’s now found purpose in his life around bringing sensible awareness around guns in this country. [01:08:00] And he is hell bent and on a journey and, and a mission, and it’s amazing what’s happened. And his heart is broken. It’s shattered, you know, but within that, there was a saying that somebody told me, your heart is broken.

Must be broken or to be broken open. And I really think that there, I’m finding that is to be so true, you know? And it, and it holds it all, it holds. I mentioned, I talked about grief and that there’s still grief, there’s still sadness, there’s still, you know, I still can get angry, but I can be with it and then it just moves.

And I, I just feel like, uh, I’m so grateful. That is the capacity of the heart. That is our [01:09:00] ability to not be stuck, not be static. We are not static beings. We’re flowing. We are flowing and moving and growing and, and when it stops and we aren’t moving, it’s, it’s, it’s. Me, it’s us, it’s, it’s myself that’s stopping myself through my thoughts, through my beliefs.

So that’s where there’s two things. One is I have to have practices. I have to have yoga, meditation, breath work. Breath work is incredibly powerful. But I also need other people. I need other perspectives. We don’t do this healing in a vacuum. Well, I haven’t done this journey alone, guy. You’ve been a part of it all my Australian family and friends have been a part of it.

I have dear, dear friends, um, that I’m forever grateful for. And, um, and what I [01:10:00] wanna do, the reason I’m even here is I want people to hear that, to believe it. If it touches one person who’s struggling in their pain, going, how am I ever gonna get through this? You know, start to. Just follow that. Support the people that are in your life who you know are supporting you.

Secondly, find a community, a tribe of people who are practicing higher principles. Maybe it’s meditation, maybe it’s breath work, but please just get into a community. And thirdly is, um, finding a connection with something greater than yourself. And that can be the people, you know, in 12 Steps. We learn that.

I just need to know that a higher power isn’t me. That a higher power can be other people. And, but for me, it was like this relationship [01:11:00] with this intelligence, this beautiful, loving intelligence that we are all a part of is, uh, it, it’s, it’s. Moves me to tears when I think of how beautiful that love and that that beautiful love and abundance and grace is, you know?

So, um, I am, uh, forever, forever grateful and, and I still have days. You know, I honestly, like two weeks ago, I had a very dark day. I had a very, very, I could see no hope, and Taryn just held me and I was like, I, I just don’t see any, any hope and I’m realizing that I’m touching trauma in my body. And the trauma is from Justine losing [01:12:00] her in that way.

And, but also that I’ve come to realize, and there’s a, now a really burgeoning study about this, the genealogical trauma. Certainly Holocaust survivors shows that new generations, um, of survivors hold that same trauma in their genes. And so what can also, you know, and Dr. Joe’s beautiful teachings around epigenetics and that we don’t have a genetic destiny, we can change that.

But also the, uh, ancestral, ancestral trauma, uh, is it goes generations. And I’ve, um, enduring plant medicine journeys. I’ve seen that touched it. And I feel like I am changing that timeline. I am changing it. And without getting too wackadoodle about space time, time, space, right? [01:13:00] That as I change, all those generations change.

And as we awaken and we heal, all those heal. Seven generations back, seven generations forward. And I’ve seen that. You know, I’ve seen it. I know it. But it’s good enough for me to know that what, or for people to know that what I’m doing is just healing me. That that’s good enough. I don’t wanna throw the burden of changing all your generations.

Right. But that we, we can heal. We can heal. We will heal. It’s inevitable. It’s inevitable. And so, um, grateful.

Guy: It’s, yeah, it’s huge. What you’re saying, Don, like, ’cause I’ve covered many of those topics in depth on the podcast with ancestral trauma and even trauma being passed through your, your, your genes, your DNA, you know, there was a, I dunno if you knew this, but I think it was [01:14:00] Robbie Holtz who I had on, she was mentioned about a study where they had mice and I think they loved cherries and almonds, mice, right.

Of all things. And she wasn’t condoning this study, but what, what they would do is, um, feed them the cherries and almonds, but then when they went to eat them, they would, um, give ’em an electric shock. So all of a sudden there’d be a trauma around the cherries and almonds and then. As each generation of mice were born, then there was a dis, those mice had the same traumas around cherries and almonds as the previous mice, and that went down through multiple generations of mice.

So, you know, it, everything is kind of pointed to these things and it makes complete sense. Mm. You know, who knows what we’re holding really. ’cause it’s beyond the mind. How do we know? Yeah. I love it that,

Don: you know, scientists go and prove what we sort of theoretically, or even maybe [01:15:00] free our frequency understands this to be truth, but science is proving so much about that.

Dr. Joe Dispenza talks about that demystifying the mystical through science, science being the language of, um, of spirituality and Yeah. Um, you know, I was fortunate to work with a guy named MAs Sanja, who, uh, we went in and he calls it deletions and disconnections, and through just, um, intention, clarity, and willingness to surrender and let go of that trauma, it changed, it changed in me.

Like I could feel it, you know, my family has years of sexual trauma and, um, and it, it. Uh, things really shifted for me. So deleting and disconnecting with intention and with, um, you know, that’s a big part of his work. But, uh, Rob Wegen is another beautiful, beautiful healer doing that work. Uh, [01:16:00] Rob wegen.com.

W-E-R-G-I-N. You know, this is a man who, uh, resonates with, um, with truth and higher, higher truth. And so, um, I share that because I want people to know, you know, um, Modi, uh, he has a process called xxi. Yeah, he’s a little, he’s a little sharper on the edges, but his work is beautiful.

Guy: I, I’m keen to know your thoughts as well, Don, on about, because it always seems to me like they say we, I mean, I had a podcast earlier this morning with William Whitecloud and, and one of the things he kept stressing was, you don’t have to be in pain to, to lean into this work. You know, we don’t have to go through these, these dark nights of the soul to really metamorphs into the butterfly and come out the other side, you know, and which, but as humans, we have this tendency to, [01:17:00] to wait, procrastinate, stall, hold back, and even if there’s a, an underlying pain within us that we haven’t been able to even acknowledge, articulate, or feel or put a, put a words to.

Then we do tend to pull ourselves away from people, those communities that you speak about, those practices. And especially if we’ve never had the reference point to actually experience what it’s like to, to be, ’cause I always used to think opening the heart was metaphoric. You know? Like, I, I didn’t realize that was a thing.

Um, beyond metaphor. Like, you, you, there truly is this expansive experience that comes from it and it, who knows what its limitations are. Like you said, it’s probably unlimited. Yeah. So I guess my question is why, why, why do we behave like that? And I know there’ll be people listening today that will probably be podcast junkies, but won’t go there, you know?

[01:18:00] Yeah.

Don: I mean, won’t go into the, into this work

Guy: or, yeah. Or won’t really. Go, I’m, you know, I’m all in. Like, I’m all in. I’m gonna, I’m doing this. You know, there’s like, there’s this, this intention, there’s this commitment, there’s this acknowledgement to something greater, to this to go like, where, you know, when every, every cell in your body is like, I’m in now I’m in.

Yeah, let’s go. Yeah.

Don: And you know, you mentioned one put

Guy: out.

Don: Yeah. You mentioned pain and, um, your guess it was on earlier. And I think with pain, what we do in as, as humans, and this polarity, we call pain bad and happiness. Good. We put a judgment on it. Right. Now, think about this for a second. If we said we call pain bad, why?

Why do we call it bad? It’s a, it’s a judgment we put [01:19:00] on it. When in reality all pain is, is our system showing us where we’re out of alignment? Pain is a, is a feedback mechanism. It’s feedback saying, oh, there’s something to pay attention to. And we call it bad, but we call it bad. When we avoid it, we’re versive to the pain.

Ooh, I don’t, I, I’m not going there. But you know, in these practices in meditation when I’d be sitting for hours in retreat and my knee was just throbbing, right? That’s like pay attention to me. And the teacher would simply say this, he would say, let’s not label this as pain. Let’s label it as sensation.

There’s sensation present in my knee and yeah, eventually I should move my knee. My body is saying, I. My knee hurts move me, but I wasn’t gonna die. Okay? So I sat with it and I just fell back more and more into the breath [01:20:00] and into the blackness, if you will. And until there was no pain, there was no knee to feel pain, you know, it was me identifying with the pain and me going, there’s a problem here.

Is my mind doing what it does toward pain? And you know, do we need to have pain? No. I mean, Dr. Joe Sp is one of his main teachings is don’t wait for trauma. Let’s do this now. Right? Let’s do this. Don’t wait for cancer. Don’t wait for these diagnosis to show up where we have to pay attention. Go, oh, this is trying to get me to pay attention to something that is really out of alignment.

Um. And so I, I agree with, with your guest, and I also will say that we call pain bad, but pain is just something for us to [01:21:00] use to ascend, use to evolve, use to grow. Um, if we listen to it, it will guide us. And so it’s, it’s not fun. That’s why I say this dimension, this, this earth, this world is not easy, you know?

Um, but it’s, yeah, but it’s why we’re here. It’s because it, our souls can grow and evolve. This is my belief. I’m going out there on my belief here, but that’s why I’m on the show, I guess, is that I will grow as a result of. What I’m paying attention to. There’s a beautiful author, uh, authors named Ria and Benjamin wrote a book called Becoming.

Are you familiar with that? B-A-Q-O-M-I-N-G. No. It’s a beautiful community and one of the things they say is that problems are the curriculum. [01:22:00] Problems are the curriculum of the soul. And that, you know, we feel like sometimes, oh, I have problems in my life. There’s a problem here. But if as we encounter them and navigate them and grow from them and use them to awaken and um, work with them, we grow.

Think about anything that’s been difficult in your life. You know, think about all the challenges you’ve had and how we grow. You know, I think of parenting. Parenting was one of the hardest things of of my life. You know it brother and. But it is, it, it’s incredible the gifts that it taught me. It was, it was very difficult for me because I wasn’t married to the mother.

And, um, but I became a new person because I had to step in and fight for my son. And it [01:23:00] was my, one of my greatest evolutions as a result of that problem. Right. That difficulty.

Hmm.

Don: And I’m grateful for it today. You know? Um, I think that, uh, if I can, um, I don’t know, did I talk about meditation at all with the police?

Did I get a chance to, to say? Yeah. So I do wanna say this, that, um, I worked with, um, a guy named Richard Goling who has a, a outfit called the Mindful Badge. And I tried to bring. I took it, the Minneapolis Police to do meditation, to introduce meditation, these concepts about, uh, regulating yourself, you know, regulating your emotional state so that in fear they wouldn’t do something like what happened that night in July.[01:24:00]

’cause it was pure fear, pure reaction. And we all have moments of that. Most, the majority of us don’t carry guns and have a license to use them. And so the stakes are so much higher. But we all have that where we react to something. Somebody cuts you off on the road, uh, somebody does something rude. And we were like, our instant reaction is, is this reaction rather than responding.

And so I, uh, attempted to bring meditation. Uh, I introduced council people, the chief and the team there in Minneapolis to um. To Richard Goling and his outfit. And um, it was clear though, after George Floyd that happened that the city was literally and figuratively on fire and they were in survival. The police, they had, uh, 200 plus officers retire saying [01:25:00] they had PTSD 200 out of 800.

Wow. Yeah. And, uh, they had then been, um, really. People were they, how they were seen after George Floyd was, people saw them all as bad. And I’m here as somebody who lost the love of his life to an officer who should not have pulled that trigger. And I’m saying not all officers are bad. They’re humans, but like us, they need to have training.

They need to have training to manage their emotions, not just deescalation, shoot, no shoot, but what am I feeling and when am I amped up? And I just, I would ask that anybody that hears this, if there’s technology out there, if there’s practices out there that they work to ask their police departments to [01:26:00] please adapt a, adapt these practices, uh, their ancient practices, the military’s using them for PTSD, um.

With great success. Not to mention they’re also using, um, psilocybin with great success around PTSD, ketamine great success. But when these officers are on the field, one of the officers who was on the stand and in the trial for Mohammed Norris said, I just wanted to get home to my family. And I, I will pull that trigger to protect myself so that I get home to my family.

’cause it’s, he described it as a war zone. I a war zone in southwest Minneapolis Lakes, Blakes bikers. Families, children. And so it’s, it’s the mind, it’s the thinking and it’s the [01:27:00] regulating using breath. I mean, even just teaching them that, teaching them a one two breath in for four seconds out for eight when they’re driving to a scene in for four out for eight.

Um, keep having an app on their phone. I was fortunate to be able to work with one of the trainers and they were able to get an app, uh, on the phone that had, um, meditation, um, practices on it. And I asked him, I said, what’s the adapt adaption rate of people listening to that? And he said, less than 3%. So it’s clear that it’s not something you just throw on an app and have them listen to, um, CALM or, uh, some of those other ones.

It’s something they need, they need to be just like they do tactical. Trainings, they need to use this as a tactical training. You know, one of the officers who does the training for police said if you paint it [01:28:00] black and call it tactical, they’ll do it. So I thought, how can we paint meditation black and say it’s tactical, but it is tactical.

It prevents them, you know, the city of Minneapolis has paid out $47 million in the last, you know, in those three years, $47 million. Mm-hmm. Now think if they just invested 10% of that, how about even 1% of that into teaching officers how to regulate? Their biology, how to regulate their emotions, using breath, using mindfulness.

So when the time comes, I’ll go back and I’ll try again. You know, they were in crisis. They have a new chief, they’re hiring in Minneapolis. Um, I’ll go back and try again, but, um, it feels like a mission.

Guy: Incredible, mate. I, um, I had, [01:29:00] I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him. I had an ex Navy SEAL on Mark Dev Divine last year, and he, I.

Uh, before joining, uh, the seals, he was hugely into all these practices and meditation and work, and he took them into the military and, you know, he is just a great guy. Great man. And you can see he embodies it. Like he was one of the most present people I’ve spoke to on the podcast coming back and I mm-hmm.

I know part of his mission is, is training people these techniques and things, especially when you’re, where you need it most when you’re under, you know, when you’re in the heat Yeah. Of these extreme moments, which are beyond just daily life.

Don: And you make a great, you make a really good point there with um, him, is that it can’t be somebody like me.

It can’t be you. It can’t be, it has to be somebody inside. Who teaches this, like he’s on the inside teaching it and it [01:30:00] makes it credible, uh, and makes it accessible and makes it relevant for them because they’re like, well, you don’t really know what we’re dealing with, but he does, you know? And so That’s right.

Yeah. Yeah. That became really clear to me, and that’s why Richard Goling, who was formerly a police officer, is teaching police departments these practices. Uh, he has credibility because he was an officer. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So Mark Dev Divine, I’ll, I’ll look him up.

Guy: Yeah. And you only have to look at the world in general.

It’s a war zone half the time. Like, we all need these practices. Right?

Don: Absolutely. At the end of the day. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, one thing, I taught my class last night, um, and I invite any listeners who want to join our class, it’s we, uh, Wednesday evenings at 7:00 PM Mountain Time. Not sure what that is in Aus time, but it’s probably morning.

But, um, [01:31:00] we talked about the Buddhist call it the middle way. And the middle way is for us to hold our center no matter what’s happening. And you can say that philosophically hold the middle away, but how do we do that? And so many of this practices teachers come back to the breath, come back to the body.

Feel your feet on the ground. Feel your body right now and find the middle. You know, even as listeners right now, just tune in. To your body at this moment, the inner body feeling, your breath rising, falling, it brings us right to this moment. And from that place we can respond rather than react. So, uh, it’s simple.

Beautiful. But it’s a thank you.

Guy: Thinking with, just to wrap this up [01:32:00] today, Don, and we’ve covered a hell of a lot of ground when you think about it, between the, both, both recordings, even though they’ll be here as one, um, what, what would you like to leave the listeners to ponder on to, to sit with, with everything that we have covered today?

Don: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a great, great question and I think, uh, guy that kind of circling back. Is that you mentioned the world and how it looks like, you know, the world is a war zone. And, um, that there’s so many challenges in our life and for us to be in community with like-minded people. That’s one of the, my main messages.

Reach out, connect, um, join our, we call it our high vibe, tribe call, uh, on [01:33:00] Wednesday evenings. Like, but join a community and don’t be, you know, you’re not alone. And the second thing is consider practices that are ancient, that are, there’s a renaissance right now around plant medicine, but I don’t recommend you just go and take plant medicine on your own.

Do it in a community, uh, supportive environment, maybe therapy. Um. The, they call it the set and setting is really important in those practices. The set is your mindset, why am I doing this? What’s my intention? And then the setting is really important. Is it safe? Am I around with people who are safe and, um, are they having a similar intention, um, surrounded by beauty, you know?

But I think that, um, there’s healing [01:34:00] available. It’s just healing. And so going back to the ancient practices, that’s, that’s that. And not being alone and being with people who love you. Um, those two things will get us through anything. So, um, and Guy, you’re one of those. So again, I, I thank you for being that for me.

You kept reaching out and. Send in your love and just being there, you know, I just, I’ll never forget that. So, yeah. Thank you.

Guy: Right. Thank you. And thank you for all that you’re doing and, and just being there and, and witnessing you the, the, the last five years and your journey. Don, you know, it, it’s, it’s something I hold in my heart dear, and, and you inspire me that constantly [01:35:00] and, um, and it was a huge privilege to have you on the podcast today, mate.

I can’t, I can’t say that enough. Hey mate, the

Don: privilege is mine

Guy: to be

Don: with you. Thank you for, thank you for inspiring me and stepping forward into purpose and doing what you do. You know, ’cause you touch lives, you don’t even know how many lives you touch. So. Um, you’re planting seeds and there’s, you won’t, there’s trees.

You won’t even get to see that grow. But you are, you are, uh, inspi inspiration to, to me, and so many, so thank you.

Guy: Thank you, man.

Don: Yeah,

Guy: much love, Don. Thank you much love.

Don: Bye Guy.