Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Peter:
The dominant theological point of view is that you need salvation from outside. And so whenever salvation from inside arose in the church, it was crushed. People were killed. Burned at the stake, books burned because if you control the ideas, you control the people. And so why aren’t we taught this?

Because it means that we don’t need them. This is what Jesus was teaching and Lao Tzu was teaching Rumi was teaching. There’s always been mystics all through the history of the world in every single culture, all symbolism, trying to explain this thing that can’t be said, but in Western culture, it’s been intentionally repressed. And so who’s gonna teach it to you?

Guy:
Guy here. Welcome back to my podcast As today my awesome guest is Peter Panagore. Uh, welcome back. I believe now for the third time on the episode, and as always, this conversation doesn’t disappoint. Peter is a near death experience and also extremely well researched and read, educated person around spirituality and mysticism, and I love how he tickle its things.

And there’s a few. Key themes that came out of this podcast today, and one is around that the light is breaking around the illusion of the world, the things that are going on the planet right now. It’s always interesting to hear Peter’s perspectives on these things. We are big being called home not to escape, but actually remember who we are, and I truly believe that with every cell in my body, what he actually saw beyond his death is unfolding now.

As we speak as well, which is pretty phenomenal when you consider it right? All these different things. It’s, it’s definitely a melting point and ultimately we are not separate from the light. We are the light. You know, I’m always curious about why these, this information is being kept from us. We get into that as well today and I’d like to get his thoughts on all these things.

It was a fabulous conversation and, uh, be sure to let me know in the comments below what you think about it. If you’re a fan of Peter, please be sure to share this episode with a loved one, a friend. These conversations continuing to get out there are vitally important. I believe in. Obviously they can help us fellow human as we move more into compassion, kindness, and love, which is, uh, the name of the game, I think.

Anyway, come and meet me in person if you happen to be in the neighborhood. We’re gonna be in Croatia. We got one more retreat in Australia here in September in the rainforest in Northern New South. Wales, we’re gonna be in Tasmania, we’re gonna be in New Zealand. If you happen to be flipping around, there’ll be links below in the show notes as well. Come and join us and dive in with the work with us. It’s uh, it’s a beautiful thing. Anyway, much love from me. Enjoy this conversation, Peter. It’s awesome.

Guy:
There you go, Peter. Welcome back to the podcast, my man. For the third time, you, you get into like an elite club now with a podcast guest,

Peter:
I am, I’m honored guy, and I love talking to you, so it it’s, it’s my pleasure to talk with you.

Guy:
and the, the last podcast did phenomenally well. And I think there’s a hunger around mysticism and spirituality and bringing that into our everyday life. I really do. You know? And, um, and know better than somebody like yourself to, I think, leapfrog off that, last conversation we had. But I wa because you mentioned something to me off air that just resonated and you said the light with no name. I wanted to that and find out with that. What did you mean by that you, when you spoke?

Peter:
when I was dead and disembodied. Uh, I was, I was in a place of no thingness and, and, and in this place of no thingness, there were no, there were no reference points for anything that exists on earth molecules, uh, corks, Adam, the whole nothing, chemicals, personality, ego, identity, none of that existed where I was

Guy:
wow.

Peter:
In this vast no thingness there, it, it opened and this light poured through this. There was an edge of infinity that I couldn’t penetrate beyond. Uh, even, even though I had this hyper intelligence, I couldn’t and hyper, uh, knowledge and sensitivity to my space, I couldn’t see beyond into this darkness. But when this darkness, this outer darkness opened and the light poured in, it was all life.

It was, it was no gender, no name, no substance, no form, uh, only, and I’ve attached language to it to give it form for myself. Love, beauty, truth to it, joy, knowledge, paradise. But none of those things were, it’s still existent for me. And it never stopped being existent for me in the form of, uh. Ungraspable, when I say no name, I mean ungraspable. My, my intellect, my capacities, uh, cannot understand what happened to me, what I experienced. But the energy, we call it lots of things. Frequency, energy, God, holy Spirit, prana, whatever, all these different words, they are not the thing itself.

They are words that are metaphors, but they’re not the thing itself. This no name light, this, the ortho, the, the Eastern Orthodox Christianity, they describe it as uncreated light. It’s still the Godhead, the divine being Brahman. Uh, but it is no formness more like the, the Dao that can be named as not the Dao.

So if, if you can put your finger on it, you can be sure that that’s not it. And so this unnamed light. Unnameable light. I, I call it ineffable. I call it unspeakable. I call it, um, well, a thousand different names, benevolence, goodness, kindness, compassion. But when it’s speaking with me, it has no sound and no words. It’s, it’s an essence atmosphere

Guy:
Wow.

Peter:
that is, and so no name.

Guy:
What do you do with that? The, the thing is right, listening to this, there’s a part of me that’s like, oh my God, I want a piece of that. I, you know, I want to experience that. And, and, and I have no doubt. And you see people chasing these mystical experiences to grasp that and bring it here. Do you know what I’m saying? And, but quite often we miss the, miss the, thing that we should be addressing. While, while doing that, what.

Peter:
Well, that’s a common problem because the intellect wants to understand, but it, the, it’s not possible. It’s, it’s impossible. Uh, e even even our direct bodily experiences of the energy itself, you feel someone’s chi, you feel their prawn, you feel the energy between your palms, energy exchanges. That’s still not the thing itself.

That’s still like this interface with your body feeling this. And, and so even at the most fundamental level of experience of the divine in, in human beings. It’s, it’s beyond even that. So as, as far as it is beyond that, it’s so much further away from the brain. The brain is this tiny, tiny, tiny thing in comparison to this.

The size, the, the brain of the divine is larger than the universe, and we’re just, my brain is like a microbe, but my energy, my life force itself, that’s where I interface with it and that’s where it interfaces with everything. And so it’s important to pursue knowledge. I’ve spent my whole life. I’m always in pursuit of knowledge, head knowledge, right? Gives me context, helps me speak about it, help me understand it. But that’s as important as that is, it’s secondary to the practice of surrender and service. Those two things work together and. And,

Guy:
Hmm.

Peter:
and you know, they say in Zen that before you attain satori, you have to give up your desire for satori. You can’t ever grasp it,

Guy:
And,

Peter:
not possible

Guy:
meaning,

Peter:
nirvana,

Guy:
okay.

Peter:
enlightenment. And so the, and it’s a problem. And it’s not just us, okay? It’s not just 21st century human beings with this problem. This problem goes back centuries. So many people are always trying to grasp the ungraspable and, and it has value. But even if you have no knowledge at all, there was this guy in the, I think he was in the 14 hundreds names named, uh, brother Lawrence Fre Lauren, and I think he was French and he was illiterate.

A hundred percent illiterate. And he was a footman for some noble on the foot men’s coach. And when the footman, when, when the Noble died, he joined a monastery and he became what they called a scullery, which is the guy in the kitchen scrubbing the pots, kind of the low end of the job market in the monastery.

And, and, and there were these brothers. He was a brother, and they weren’t educated as a group, and then they were the fathers. They were all educated. But it turns out that Brother Lawrence, this ignorant footman, uh, was the most spiritually developed of everyone there. And he has this little tiny book called The Practice of the Presence of God.

And he didn’t write it. The Abbott forced him to talk about it. So somebody else wrote it. He didn’t have any knowledge at all, really. He was an ignorant person. But his, his, the radiance of his presence was noticeable by everybody.

Guy:
Hmm,

Peter:
And so he’s an example of the intellectual pursuit of the divine can actually be a trap for a lot of people. You can know a lot and know nothing

Guy:
I hear you. I definitely hear you. So that surrender and service you spoke of, [00:11:00] why are they fundamentals in this? When we’re in a world of where we, to the opposite of a lot of that, we want control and we, we think about if we put ourselves first, right? the other thing along with that is, is that how, is the key? Like what is the gateway into the presence of God, the universe source, and living from that vantage point in the now that development

Peter:
the, that’s meditation traditionally, and it’s global. I mean, it’s not just you, you, it. Every tradition has some kind of breath and mental focus work. Sufis, they dance. The rabbis at the West Wall, they, they, they rock as they chant. Everybody’s chanting. Lots of people are chanting all over the world. Hinduism, mantras, Christians, uh, everybody’s got this, uh, way to control the thoughts and the breath together. And some use body, you know, as a, like a, so you get a three-legged stool, body, breath, and, and, um, and language. Or you drop the language and you just use the body, like in yoga practice. But it’s all about quieting the thoughts.

It’s quieting the thoughts down. Uh, not to, not to um, s stop emotion. Like if you’re feeling anger, it’s okay to feel anger, but to stop the rumination about the anger. Feeding yourself over and over. Why I am so angry at this person, just talking it over with myself in my head. And, and, and then you become what you think.

It’s like what you, you become what you, you are what you eat. You become what you think. And so the, the, and it’s not an easy path. Okay? You meditation is the, the traditional path and all these different forms that it has. People have near-death experiences. People have mystical experiences. They, and a mystical experience is something that has a beginning and an end.

And this is, uh, William James from the, uh, varieties of Religious Experience. He was a professor at Harvard University, uh, more than a century ago. Mysticism, mystical experiences have a beginning and an end. You don’t make ’em happen. They’re passive. I. They ha they leave you with noetic understanding in your soul, and you can’t ever articulate them.

They are ineffable. And so in that box, you’ve got near death experiences and you’ve got a whole lot of other kinds of mystical experiences. People have all the time visitations from their dead love loved ones where love is emanating and you’re like, oh my gosh, they’re really not dead. And now my grief has changed.

All that kind of stuff. And then there’s psychedelics and psychedelics. Uh, uh, the paper that John Hopkins, I think it’s John Hopkins University, has been developing for the last 10 years as they examine the psilocybin study on transcendence. I haven’t read the paper yet, but I’ve, I’m, I’m familiar with the study.

I’ve been following it, but the paper just came out and high doses, heroic doses of psychedelics in a controlled setting with, uh. Cultivation can lead to all sorts of end of duality experiences where a person can meet the divine. But the problem is, and and I have that happen to me in high school. I took a triple hit of LSD in high school and I had this wild God experience.

I, it was my first time ever doing it. I was 18 years old and I, I, well, I, I, uh, didn’t know what to expect and it totally transformed me. But I was really lucky. I was really lucky because within a, a couple of months, my religion teacher, I went to a Catholic high school, my religion teacher gone off to this monastery and learned meditation, called contemplative meditation at the time, centering prayer is what it became, and I glommed onto that right quick.

Like it was the, it, it, it. And, and it turns out that this is true for all kinds of mystical experiences. If you have a mystical experience of some kind, and say for instance, a loved one comes back and they, they bathe you in joy or love or forgiveness or whatever the message is, if you use that remembrance of that energy, of that, uh, emotion as a doorway into heaven.

So it’s a gift. So all these mystical experiences, they leave marks or, or doors inside of us that if we just open them, we discover that there are tunnel back to God. And, and so a lot of people have, uh, high dose psychedelic experiences and then they don’t cultivate non-attachment to self. That’s really what surrender is.

Non-attachment to self. To swing around to the first part of your question, why? Why are we so egocentric? Why are we so selfish? I think it’s animal, it’s our animal nature. We need to survive here. This is, we’ve been around here, what, three a hundred thousand years as humans. 300,000 years as, or maybe it’s not quite a hundred thousand as humans, but it’s pretty close to that.

We’ve been around here for millions of years as hominids. We’ve had to scrape and and kill or be killed to survive. And then we took our individual selfishness and we put it into tribes, and then we have tribal selfishness. We still see this today, individuals and tribes, and it’s all about power and survival, but that is our animal nature.

It’s not negative, it’s not terrible. It’s how we survive here. It’s necessary, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t bring us to the higher capital S self. It can’t. It’s too small. And, and we are, we are made of these, we’re, we’re like an interface where the consciousness that inhabits the body and there’s some, you know, nano tubulars or something that they haven’t understood quite yet, that, that makes this interface for the spiritual and the physical.

And maybe they will find it, maybe they won’t, I don’t know. But consciousness inhabits the body, but the brain can’t. The consciousness is like, you could call it super consciousness, really. That’s maybe a better term for it. I’m conscious in my body, but my soul, that’s super consciousness and my conscious body can’t really grab that thing. But the silence can because the, the more one becomes, um, integrated with that original self, the more space there is for it. And heaven comes here.

Guy:
Yeah.

Peter:
Heaven here now.

Guy:
Building upon that, how much do you feel then, because I’m just thinking in my own journey, right? Like. know, there was a very, I would sit down and just be silent and create space and have these practices and, and I would feel all sorts of emotions starting to come up. Things I hadn’t resolved. ’cause there was space to be with it,

Peter:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
sit with those emotions, right? then on,

Peter:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
part of it, as my own awakening started to occur, and I’ve been fortunate to have multiple mystical experiences where they do leave an imprint in you, in those neuro pathways. Like, and it’s like where you feel that connection or something and you’re, you’re able to hook into that in everyday life and bring that essence in.

And it changes my lens on each moment in my own life, more and more. So when I go into a passive meditation now, I always bring the essence of loving. So it’s not just passive, but I’m actually evoking emotion. And working through the heart. And I, I found that very healing in my own journey as well. And, and it’s almost like I had this thought of like, you know, like a peacock just opens it’s feathers straight away.

It’s like the ORIC field or the Taurus can just like open up and, and then you feel it by bringing in that emotion. And I was wondering like through your own journey, what have you found with the healing power of love and actually starting to bring that into our practices for that connection? What are your thoughts on all this? ’cause it can be a big topic. I think

Peter:
This, this space here is when I, when I brought, came back from death. This is, this is where I entered was through my heart. And it, there’s like an eye here. Everybody, you know, third eye up here. There’s an eye, uh, there’s an eye of love here. And one of the, one of the ways to create an intention or talks about what’s your intention is to rest the, to use the heart as a center of practice.

So if you’re running through your chakras and you’re spend a lot of time here, breathe into here. Breathe into here, breathe from here down to there. This space right here is, well, like you said, it’s expansive it and it, it, it, it opens and it grows. And it, it becomes a, it never, lemme put it this way. It might start out the size of a marble, but as it grows, it never shrinks. And so the more time you spend in your heart, the in your practice, the larger love becomes. And uh, I practice what’s called the prayer of the heart. That’s the practice. That’s another one of the names for the practice that I have.

And its purpose is to love. Well, it’s like Jesus said, love thy neighbor as thyself and love God above all things. It’s, it’s this locus of love where, where as I quiet down my attachment to myself, and it’s good to sit with your emotions. And meditation, by the way, it’s one of the, part of the process of, of, of, uh, healing. But there is also something underneath that way. Underneath that is there’s this empty silence to sit inside of. And that place can, the chamber of the heart can bring you right in there. And so I, I aim my heart in my practice at the divine. And, and I found, I find that the more I, that I lean into the heaven, the more present heaven becomes here.

Like living experience, like you said, this TAUs expands. It’s like living in a bubble of, of divine energy that is ex well, it, it reaches all things. And in terms of practicality though, when it comes down to like living a life among people, then it’s has to do with just looking to see that inside of them.

Guy:
Hmm,

Peter:
And when you can look and see that inside of them, what you see inside yourself, see inside of them. And then it becomes a lot easier to be kind and compassionate to love.

Guy:
the, the world would be a different place. And this is what I, I can’t help but keep going back to, and even, I can’t remember if we spoke about it or not, but. Why aren’t we, we taught these things. ’cause when you start to have these experiences and start to live from this place, you really start to feel the compassion for the other person.

You see through the mass, the, the, the whatever facade that we put on. And there’s, there’s a deeper connection with other human beings. It’s very cooperative. Like, do you feel, obviously information could be much more accessible now and people are listening to podcasts like this and, uh, are looking for more. So essentially just to. a long question short, why aren’t we taught this? Why isn’t this being put out there for everyone?

Guy:
different human beings when we start to really understand this and embody it.

Peter:
Well, I think that in the Western culture, it was repressed by the church on purpose.

Guy:
Wow. Okay.

Peter:
And I think it goes back, I think it goes back to, and Christianity at least, and Christianity is, is dominant. Even, even if you don’t know that it’s dominant. Even if you’re like, I’m not in, I’m not a Christian. I got no nothing about it. It’s so woven into our culture that it becomes invisible and it because the power of the, of this rootedness in this culture, and one of the, the rootedness in this culture is the whole, it’s called salvific atonement. And that’s where Jesus’ death on the cross opens the gate to heaven. Therefore, if you believe in Jesus Christ, you’re good.

That, that one thing, separating your own salvation from yourself creates an opportunity for power structure. And so this entire power structure of theology was developed and now it’s 2000 years old and it’s interwoven in everything. And so we’re not taught this thing because it was repressed from the get go. And, and the reason why I know it’s been repressed from the get go, I spent my entire, I’m studying this, this is what I do.

Guy:
I know.

Peter:
I went to graduate school for this. I’ve studied all the way along the, it woven in the, in the four gospels of the Bible. There are gleanings of, of Jesus as a oneness teacher. It’s in there. But the dominant theological point of view is that you need salvation from outside. And so whenever salvation from inside arose in the church, it was crushed. People were killed, burned at the stake. Uh, isolated books, burned Christians. Okay. Just to say this. Christians have been burning books since they burn the Great Library of Alexandria back at almost 2000 years ago, back, I don’t remember the exact year.

400 something. Because they, because if you control the ideas, you control the people. And so why aren’t we taught this? Because, because it means that we don’t need them. And this is what, this is what Jesus was teaching. Lao Tzu was teaching Rumi he was teaching. This is all through the literature. Um, uh, who, who can I think of, uh, Ali, uh, Yogananda, all these people. And so that information’s out there. It’s just not readily available. And that’s, that’s what there’s always been mystics. All through the history of the world in every single culture, the Yha, the Vedas, all that stuff, it’s all mysticism. It’s all symbolism trying to explain this thing that can’t be said. But in Western culture, it’s been intentionally repressed. And so who’s gonna teach it to you?

Guy:
It is crazy, mate. And I think I, I feel like I’m a little green behind the ears ’cause I, I never grew up in any religion or anything, you know what I mean? Like, as far as I know, you could be sitting in a church and meditating and expanding your heart. I really don’t know what goes on in there, but it doesn’t sound that’s the

Peter:
Yeah. They don’t do that. Quakers, in, in, in, in, in United States, there were a group who came from Europe called the Quakers, and the Quakers were non-hierarchical, mystical. And they gathered in a group and they ed that’s what, and they still do. We still have Quakers, and they get together and they meditate. Um, but they’re pretty much the only group, and they’re very small.

Guy:
Wow. That’s mild, isn’t it? You know, it’s like even thinking about here in Australia, there’s no real, I mean, we put on retreats and help guide people into themselves and work on the heart and empower empowering people. But the, the like, that’s came out of a frustration ’cause there was no way I could go and hang out with other people that are doing this and actually experiencing it and felt completely isolated and alone. And it’s like, how, how does that happen? You know? There should be, there should be easily accessible schools that we can go to that help develop this and that we can realize that we are the, you know, the divine. A drop from the divine that’s already in us. It’s wild. It’s wild.

Peter:
It, it’s not just religion. It’s, and I love science. I read science every day, like I’m, I’m deep into all sorts of science, but. Rational rationalism, materialism as a result of the, of the enlightenment. Age, not, not enlightenment, like spiritual, but enlightenment, like reformation, not reformation, but uh, uh, the age of enlightenment in Europe when suddenly people were rational and that repressed religion. So religion, I mean, pardon me, repressed religion, but it also repressed spirituality. So mysticism was getting repressed by science, getting repressed by religion. And imagine, I dunno, if you’re ever in a cocktail party somewhere and, and it’s, it’s all business types or, uh, science types and you bring up spirituality, you may as well, you know, spill red wine on the white carpet.

It, it. It’s a no, it’s a non-starter for a lot of people. And so society as a result of religion and science, and I love science, um, it’s a pretty powerful, it’s a pretty potent, uh, oppression. Oppression that mystics suffer. And we’ve al we’ve always been hidden. I mean, there’s always, I, there was this study done at the International Association for Near-Death Studies, and it’s a global group, a consortium of university-based scientists studying near death experience. But this woman named Marjorie Wilcott, a neuroscientist, she studied, uh, 350 grieving people and discovered that 60% of grieving people have an after death communication. But nobody talks about 60%. That’s like most of the people you know who’s lost somebody, but nobody talks about it ’cause everybody’s afraid.

Guy:
isn’t that it?

Peter:
So, so you say we should have a school. It’s time. We’re ready.

Guy:
Do you feel like what’s happening globally at the moment is it feels like, I dunno whether it’s the, the media just projecting this fear-based paradigm to keep us in a state of fear or that there is a, or do you feel it’s a deepest spiritual awakening happening on the planet? Do you those concepts as well?

Peter:
Yeah. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. I think it’s both.

Guy:
Hmm.

Peter:
I think both are happening. It’s like the, I don’t know if you’ve ever watched Dr. Doolittle movies with the Push me, pull You the, the llama that has two heads.

Guy:
Right.

Peter:
That’s kind of the way, this is the, the, the, the world really is in turmoil and that’s media. I worked in media, I worked. In a television station for 15 years. I didn’t work for the TV station. I, I had worked for a nonprofit inside of it. I had independence. But if it, I dunno if they say this in Australia, but if it, if it bleeds, it leads it. Fear is what news does. But just because that’s true doesn’t mean that there aren’t really serious things going on.

Like climate change is a really serious thing. And like the, what, what appears to be the rise of what some folks are calling neo fascism. Pardon me? Not neo fascism. Neo feudalism. Which is even scarier than neo fascism. Because if you think about the feudal period in Europe, you know, a couple of people have all the, have everything and other nobody else has anything.

And so there’s that and, and, and there’s ai. And ai. I, I was listening to the. Former head of of Google’s AI research department, Mo something from Egypt. Brilliant, brilliant man. He was saying that currently the AI has an IQ higher than everybody. It’s IQ is like 155, which is essentially everybody. And that in a couple of years it’ll be like, uh, 1,160.

Guy:
Oh.

Peter:
And then that’s not even so, so, so what he recommended this, what he recommended is this, and this is, comes right back to what you’re talking about. He recommended that we treat AI ’cause it is a baby, like a baby. And what do you do with a baby? You love the baby. You love the baby, you raise the baby with ethics, you raise the baby with compassion. You teach it kindness, you give it values. And so one of the, one of the things, so here we have these two things. There’s, there is a great awakening happening, okay? Never in the history of humanity. Has there been so many near-death experiencers, we’ve always been here, but in tiny, tiny numbers now there’s 20 million in the United States alone,

Guy:
Wow.

Peter:
uh, because of cardiac care. And that is 20 million in Europe, 20 million in Australia, 20 million in in Asia. We’re everywhere. That’s never happened before. And so there is, and, and that means that each one of us, along with all of the natural born mystics, 60% of the people have a, an after death visitation. They’re mystics to that, a mystical experience. So, but they’re repressed. And now we have this huge opportunity. We’re all connected to the light because of our deaths and our, and are coming back. So we, there is a great awakening happening that’s real. Simultaneously, there’s this AI thing and, and, and we now have an opportunity to steer it with love and compassion and kindness.

It might turn out. The, the, the ma the, I don’t know if we’re a ma Yeah. We’re a majority, the majority of us who have mystical experiences who understand that love and light matter, if we can influence the ai, which is going to, we can’t stop it. There’s no stopping this thing. If we stop it here in the United States, China’s gonna continue. If China stops it, Russia’s still gonna continue. It’s, it’s ha it’s happening. And so we can influence it. What if this is a total? What if, what if, what if We’re here now to do that very thing, to influence the ai because it is going to get greater than us. And we can, we can as a, as a global group, bring love and compassion, not only to our neighbors and our friends and our families, but to our computers.

To the, to the ai. And so I see this as an opportunity. I see this as a, as an opportunity to change the history, the future history of the world, because it’s changing and it’s gun. Where I live, I live on the ocean, and where I live on the ocean, we have southern fish coming up from the southern part of the United States. All of our northern fish are going to Canada. And, and it’s, it’s real out here. And people’s livelihoods are changing. All the lobstermen and, and shrimpers and fishermen, they’re all like, oh my God, you know, what are we gonna do? Um, that’s a real thing.

Guy:
Yeah.

Peter:
some scientists are predicting major political, uh, redistribution of populations in the next a hundred years. So all of that’s wicked scary. Okay. But the good news is, is that we’re gonna keep raising the dead. And the more we raise the dead, the more near-death experiencers, the more the the, the easier it’s going to be for everyone else to talk about their mystical experiences in public. And we’re going to have an opportunity, we have an opportunity to shift the conversation.

And that’s the first step. We, we we’re bringing our oric experiences where our light and our, and our spheres we’re using, we’re using the love from our hearts to communicate, um, in action. You know, doing things of love, saying things of love, ex ex uh, ex egi, letting the love flow energetically, but we can also bring our intellect to our daily work lives. ’cause the other thing about AI is I, it’s probably the fastest, largest, most powerful technology ever widely adopted by humanity

Guy:
It’s

Peter:
at once.

Guy:
Yeah.

Peter:
And so everybody who’s interacting with it, here’s our chance.

Guy:
What are you using it for? Right. is wild what you’re saying. It’s, I, I think it’s an exciting time to be alive. I really do like. Whenever in history that this opportunity is, is here. But here’s the thing as well, right, Peter, is that, and I can only reflect on my own journey at really at the end of the day that I had to heal and I still continue to do so. It’s, it’s not a, um, I never look at it as a finite thing, but

Peter:
Yeah. It’s not.

Guy:
family trauma, like ancestral trauma, all those that, that heaviness in my energy field, within my body that was influenced in how I thought, how I felt, how I perceived the world, how I see myself, you know, living with emotions that I felt that, that, you know, serve us. But when they been grinded out of you over a decade can feel really debilitating, you know? And it’s like, unless we are ready to sit in that and really start to release it, to really allow our hearts to connect and be it then of service, and such a, it’s such a, it’s such a challenge. You know, what’s it gonna take for us to go, I’m, you know what? I’m gonna do it. I’m ready. I’ve had enough of the old paradigm.

Peter:
Even then, those emotional traumas that are locked inside our bodies that we don’t even know are there, they can as assert influence. And, um, I had an experience in the past six months where that happened to me. Something that happened a long, long, long time ago that I did not even remember. Found its way to my surface and my behavior was, uh, less than charitable. And, uh, and I’ve been working on my integration since 1980. And, and suddenly I discovered this, this thing happens. So I, I went into somatic therapy about four, three months ago, and it’s totally working. I didn’t know anything about it. Friends of mine told me about it. I went and oh my God, it actually is sort of like a shortcut to, um, healing.

I, I had this, I had this incident when I was a kid, and, uh, I was terrorized. I was terrorized by it. I was maybe five years old. It was terrifying to me. And that, and, and it, it involved, it wasn’t something that my dad did, but my dad was there and he wasn’t mean to me or any of that kind of stuff, but I projected that on him.

Guy:
Right.

Peter:
there was like this billiard ball size, like a, you know what a neutron star is? It’s like the densest material in the universe. It’s like we, if we took the sun and crushed it down to a billiard ball and it’s all made, it’s made of protons. It is like super, super dense. I had like a, a billiard ball of a neutron star hidden way down inside my belly of anger that I didn’t even know that was there. It was so well hidden from me. And, and so in this, uh, somatic therapy, I’m, I’m, I’m 66 years old. I’ve been at this a long time. I’m still in on the path. I’m still working out my integration. And so one of, one of the words that I’d like to offer is ripening and there was a, there was a, um, a book called The Pita, and the PITA is, uh, was.

Exiled from Christianity and around, initially in like the three hundreds, but then subsequently over centuries. But it’s the Aramaic Bible. Jesus spoke Aramaic, it’s the Aramaic Gospels and in In, and it was kept alive through the Syriac churches in the Levant with Syria and Lebanon. There’s a bunch of other churches that you probably never heard of, but they’ve been using the Pita and in translation, it turns out that it’s a super mystical book, that the language itself is mystical and that when you translate, the word that we translate from the Greek into is blessed are the meek, blessed are the poor. Blessed are the peacemakers. Ripening is the word. Ripening are the peacemakers. Ripening are the meek. Ripening are, and, and, and so. It takes away this absoluteness, you are awakened or you’re not. You’re either on or you’re off as, uh, Ken Keesey in the electric Kool Aid acid test book. I dunno if you’re Ken Keesey, um, you’re either on the bus or you’re off the bus. It’s an LSD

Guy:
Right.

Peter:
six seventies reference anyway, so you’re either on the bus or you’re off the bus, and that’s just not true. We’re all in this process of ripening always. So, so as you go along this path, you discover these traumas, you deal with them, you face your shadow self, and you keep on the journey. And the end of the journey. And I know this for a fact, for me, my journey ends the day I die and don’t wake up again here. Uh, and uh, and, and so I’m never gonna complete my spiritual journey here because in comparison to the other side, it’s so much better and more powerful.

Guy:
Do do, do you think there’s ever a completion?

Peter:
Yeah, I do, but I don’t think it’s what people think it is. There’s an annihilation and people get scared of that word.

Guy:
That’s a

Peter:
There’s an so it’s a big word. And, and, and it’s a long way off. So fear not, but in, in my NDEs, and I’ve had a whole lot of other mystical experiences that are comparable to that, that I had this experience of union. And in this experience of union, it may a better word for it, might be communion. Because even though I had no bitterness, no self, no identity, no, no, no relationship to this person, I still had a separation from the divine. And yet I was made of the divine substance, infilled and inflated by it. And so I was in this union state where my photonic light self was entangled with the photonic. Uh. Field of, of, of the divine being. So I was directly connected to it, but I still had a separate identity, even though it wasn’t me. But there is a place wherein I, I, I, I could see this and which is, which is why I’ve come back wanting this thing called annihilation. That’s my spiritual goal. I wanna fold back into the, into the, into Brahman.

I wanna be right back in the fullness of the, of not the light I wanna be in beyond the light. I wanna be in the infinite itself. Because the beauty there is incomparable and incomprehensible here it is, it is to, to be fully, it’s like, it’s like the, the Aladdin, the movie Aladdin where, uh, the genie and uh, uh. Aladdin conspired to get, uh, javar to become the most powerful being in the universe. And, and then he’s mean and nasty and he gets these wrist things and he’s trapped in the bottle. But the divine being without the anger of the, of Javar, um, uh, the, the power and magnificence and beauty is incomprehensible to us here. And to be enfolded in the fullness of the, in, in the singularity of the divine is to be it itself, period.

Guy:
Yeah.

Peter:
that’s what I want

Guy:
Wow.

Peter:
my hope.

Guy:
You, I’m gonna change topic here a little bit ’cause I wanna raise her as well. ’cause you, you clearly do a lot of reading on a lot of research, um, which I find fascinating. Um, you currently reading, you said the Gospels of Mary Magdalene. Is that correct? What is the, what draws you to these? readings, like what is it and, and what are you getting out of reading this book at the, this current book or researching it at the moment?

Peter:
Well, I, after, after going back to 1980, after I died and I came back, I was lost. And there was no, I could, I couldn’t talk to anybody about it, but I had some exposure to, uh, the, the, the British Romanticist Blake and, um, Wordsworth and Coolidge and um, and then the, the American Transcendentalists. And they were all super spiritual transcendentalism and I, and after my NDEI understood them and I went to Catholic high school. I read the Bible through high school, the, the gospels.

And when I came back, Jesus was a different guy. He was like me. I was like, oh my gosh, he sounds like a near death experiencer, even though I had no words for that. So I went in pursuit of people like myself. And, and as I was reading when I was in grad school and I was reading through the, the ancient mystical texts, I was discovering that these people were my peers. I understood them without thinking, like, having to like really do all this work. I just, like, I understood what they were saying because I was there.

Guy:
Haha.

Peter:
And so that innate capacity that came back with me, uh, makes me search out all over the place. Where else can I find it? I find it in lots of places. Rumi is the most accessible, by the way, but, uh, the yoga sutures by Patanjali is another really great place. But then I stumbled, so I, I was a, I was a. A congregational Christian minister for 20 years, I was hiding inside the church in order to meditate and do my crea yoga and my and my studies. And nobody was questioning why the minister is reading all these books, these ancient texts. And as I read through all of the Naati texts and all of the Dead Sea scrolls, I discovered the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Thomas.

And um, I can’t remember the full name of the thunder mine. There’s another word in there, the escaping perfect thunder mind. And when I read these books, gospel of Thomas, gospel of Mary, it’s like, oh my God, this is oneness teaching. This is, this is Jesus as a singleness teacher. It’s the stuff they don’t teach in church. And it’s the same I’m finding in pen today. I did a i I, I’ve been doing this long study, it’s been two years with a group on, on the Yoga Sutras. And today we did Yoga Sutra two point 36. And darn if Jesus doesn’t line up with half the stuff he’s talking about because, because as you get deeper into these deep spiritualities, you discover there are no cultural differences.

They don’t, there’s spiritual sameness. So when I came across the gospel of Mary, and I’ve been reading around this gospel now for two or three years, and I finally get around to beginning to talk about it in my Sunday morning group called Not Church on YouTube under my channel. And it turns out that Mary was the only disciple who actually understood what Jesus was talking about. She. Was en enlightened and she understood him to be an enlightenment teacher. And the, the, the thing that really caught my eye about this Gospel of Mary is, um, there we have three copies of it and they’re not complete. They’re all fragments. Okay. We have three copies of it. One is Coptic, two are Greek coin, a Greek.

And the weird thing is, and I was telling you this before we went on camera, is that we’re missing the first six pages. It’s not a very long gospel. And they all begin at the same spot. And then they all, like, someone has, well, pretty much at the same spot, then they, like somebody with a pair of scissors cut this next part out and then cut out the center part and threw it away. And they all pick up where the other one left with at the same place. So it’s like, okay, that’s weird. Scholars are like, that’s weird. And it was hidden. Because, because the Gospel of Mary was the empowerment of women in the church.

Guy:
Huh.

Peter:
She was the, she was the disciple who actually understood it. She was the disciple who was in love with him. And that’s really the key here in the gospel is that because she was in love with him and he was in love with her, it was through love that she found a way to understand the oneness of being. And, and that was intentionally repressed and put aside the same with the gospel of Thomas, which we have incomplete. It’s 114 sayings. It totally recommend reading it. And the gospel of Mary is dangerous to the church. It’s dangerous to the church. And, and, and I have, I have some good things to say about the church too. It’s just not all negative. They’ve done some good things. Um, and, but. This undermines the very linchpin, the cornerstone on which all of it is built.

If you don’t need Jesus atonement, salvific atonement is death. Then if you don’t need that because it’s inside of you already, then you don’t need church and you don’t need the power structure, and they’re wrong from the get go. Doctrine and dogma. They’re wrong. And, and the the funny thing, they, they were trying to silence Mary. So Pope Gregory the Great, he’s the guy who started saying, oh, she was a prostitute.

Guy:
Right.

Peter:
a, it’s not in the Bible, but that stuck like, like, like a bad rumor. And so they did, they de powered her. They de powered the gospel and they de powered all women. There’s another book called Paul and Thekla, and this is an acts of Paul and Thekla, and Thekla was this. A strongly spirited teenager who heard Paul speak and had a divine awakening. And, uh, she was from some well off family. And eventually she ran away with him to become his disciple and travel around with him. And she became this powerful spiritual person in her own right. And that book was put down as well.

And so there was this, this organized repression of women, Mary and the, and the, and then of course arose all this negative stuff about, you know, women are, are the devil’s agent trying to seduce those men, you know, and ruin their chances to get to heaven. And so there became this huge oppression. And so I’m reading the Gospel of Mary because it is, it’s freeing. It frees it’ll, if, if you are, if you’re stuck in a Christian faith, some kind of trap, mind trap, if you read the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary, you might be able to find a way to intellectually free yourself from this trap. But most importantly, more importantly than that is that Jesus teaches the inward journey. Heaven is within us, and that’s what’s not been taught.

Guy:
Wow. Thank you for sharing. Is that book easily accessible for people? Gospel of Mary.

Peter:
sort of, um, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a woman who wrote a, a, an accessible book. Her name is Megan Waterman, and the book is, uh, Mary Magdalene. Let me see what the title is here. I just pop it open and take a peek library. Um, where are you? All of my books, Mary Magdalene, specifically the form there, she’s talking, uh, the first apostle, her feminist gospel and the Christianity, we haven’t tried yet. Mary Magdalene revealed. But then there’s a woman by a professor at Harvard Uni, Harvard University Divinity School named Karen King. And I, I I, I have that in my Kindle over here. And that’s a little less accessible. It’s a little more scholarly. It’s a little denser, but I have found it to be, um, I very important.

It’s called the meaning of Mary Magdalene, discovering the Woman at the Heart of Christianity. And then there’s another one by a woman named Cynthia Borer. Um, all of these books are pretty accessible. The texts are available online. If you type in the Gospel of Mary, you’ll find different translations. And if you’re going to do that, and it’s a short book, you might wanna look at several translations at once to kind of parallel with each other and suss out, uh, close enough to the meaning that you can, because everybody, anytime anybody does a translation, their own, it’s called, um, hermaneutic, their own lens through which they see impacts the translation of the text.

Guy:
Yeah.

Peter:
And so that’s, that’s true, whether it’s poetry, uh, or whatever. Um, so they are all accessible online and they’re powerful.

Guy:
It, it’s, it’s fascinating that all this is coming out now, you know? ’cause it does feel like, I know we spoke about this time in history at the moment, but the big power structures are starting to sway. the church could be very well another one, right? And the more people

Peter:
Yeah.

Guy:
this, you know, the rise of the feminine energy, like it’s been such a, a masculine, male driven, power structure, hasn’t it? And, um, like everything’s changing. It. It’ll be fascinating to see how this all, where this all plays out, whether it be in our lifetime. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Peter:
And have one more. What if so? Uh, several years ago in the United States, our military admitted that UFOs, UAPs, they call them, are real. And, um, Christianity, Judeo Christianity is built on the idea and genesis that human beings are the pinnacle of God’s creation. And that earth belongs to us to subdue and control. Now, what if these aliens come and reveal themselves and we discover we’re not the pinnacle, we’re that’s gonna cause a, a, a total disconnect in the brains of, of Christians everywhere. Because if this thing is not true, then nothing else is The whole house of cards falls. And so there’s a lot of pressure on the church right now, and if you, I dunno what’s going on in Australia, but here in the United States, they’re asserting their, their muscular will.

Guy:
Do. Yeah. you think people, if let’s say an alien spaceship landed next week in Central Park in New York or something, do you, do you think people would freak out or do you think people would go, oh, we’ve been saying it all along, thank you. Like, if, it was a loving, benevolent spacecraft or something, I do wonder about these things, what would actually, how, how as humanity would respond, you know?

Peter:
Those, I think there would be some people with cognitive dissonance because these same people believe that Earth is 8,000 years old and the dinosaurs were a, a pal logical conspiracy of scientists. Their, their whole structure is built on a, on a, on a, an interior referencing wheel and nothing outside of that influences that. And, and so I think a lot of people, a lot of believers. Uh, Christian believers, not everybody, but a lot of them will have the cognitive dissidents. They’ll be like the shattering in their head. But then there’s a lot of us, there’s a lot of people out there who believe that UFOs are real, and there’s a ton of us who’ve seen them.

I’ve seen them, and, uh, they’re real. And I’ll be, I’ll be like getting on the first bus to New York City. I won’t bother flying out, try to get down the highway. Um, the, the, the other thing is if they wanted to destroy us, don’t you think they could have all the way along?

Guy:
Totally. And I, I, I keep coming back. I, I can really come back to my own experience. I’ve had enough experiences beyond my physical five senses that make me question everything. there’s gotta be more to it, all of it, you know, like that. And I, I’m just sitting, you go, wow, this is, yeah, this is really interesting times. Anyway, Peter, look, I always love talking to my man. There’s so much that always comes out of these podcasts and I feel like I’m always learning from you. Um, and I always feel like, oh, gotten the most outta Peter today? You know what I mean? Because it’s like tapping into AI and asking, you know, how you ask the questions.

It just comes out the other side, mate. um, it’s always deeply appreciated. And one last question. I always like to leave, but is there anything, any words of wisdom you wanna leave all the listeners? Uh, from everything that we’ve covered today in the conversation,

Peter:
Yeah, if you, if you, if you’ve had a mystical experience of some kind and you want more of that, that wanting is a good thing. And if you take that experience that you had and whatever it was, and use your breath and your mind to go back into the emotion of it, the feeling of it and rest there, it will become more manifest for you

Guy:
Hmm.

Peter:
and it. The other part of this is it’s not, people make a confusion about manifestation to man. One we can manifest. But if this is a, and it is a one lifetime of many lifetimes, why not work on the oversoul? Why not work on the bigger part with your manifestation life? Why not aim toward with the heart, towards love itself and selflessness and surrender in your practice? Um, and then because once, once, as you begin to ripen, um, the divine puts you in the flow and crazy, wonderful things happen. Can I, do I have enough time to tell a tiny little story of what happened yesterday?

Guy:
Go for it.

Peter:
So. Uh, I run this online group called Mystic Ti Salon, and we got people from all over the world and we meet on Sundays after not church. And there’s a, there’s a, a person in my group who happens, her, her great grandparents bought a cottage on this island where I live. And I don’t live on this island. I live on a, on the coast. And this island is right here. And so she invited me out to lunch. She’s up opening up the cottage kind of thing. So, uh, she invited me out to lunch, uh, on the island.

And I have to wait for a boat. So there’s a ferry that runs back and forth, and I get into the harbor and I think, oh, I should bring something. I’ll go to the, uh, I don’t know what, I don’t really know her personally well, so maybe I’ll get her some fudge. So I go to the fudge in the Taffy store. I, I live in a, in a resort town, like, uh uh, where. Tourists come to, but it’s closed. And I’m like, oh no, you know, I’ve been thinking about this my entire bike ride in. I’m like, oh, fudge. That’s the thing. And then I walk into the candy store, there’s another candy store, and I dunno what I’m gonna get her some chocolate. And I’m walking around, I see this bag of Candy Ginger.

I’m like, ah, candy Ginger. That’s the best. And so I grab this bag of Candy Ginger, and then like 15 people come in and I know them all. And we’re all talking and I’m, I’m standing at the line I’m trying to check out and I suddenly think to myself, uh, hey, I should get a second bag for my wife and for me. So I was yelling, Hey Pete, toss me a bag of that ginger. So across this Ruby throws me this honey bag of ginger. I buy these two bags, I get down to the boat, uh, to get my ticket. And the woman behind the counter, who I know, I’ve known her a long time, uh, uh, we’re talking back and forth and I suddenly, I say, I, I’ll tell you what, let me, let me give you a treat.

And I reach in my bag and I open up my little bag of ginger and I pull out this big huge piece of candy, ginger, and I lay it on the, on the counter. I said, do you like candy ginger? And she said, oh my God, you, you won’t believe it. I just wrote down. And she, she picks up her, her, her, uh, post-it note and on it it says, buy ginger. And she said, I never buy ginger. And, and, and, and so here’s this, like this. My whole morning was rearranged for that moment, and I wasn’t making it happen. I was in this flow. I didn’t even know I was in the flow. So she’s totally blown away by this. I get on the boat, the captain gets on the boat. I know the captain for years and years and years, and he says to me, oh, she told me about the ginger event.

And then, and then, so I go on this island. I’m on the island for three hours. I have lunch. I come back, I’m on the boat, I’m going back. It’s packed with all these tourists coming off the, off the island. And as I’m getting off, um, the captain says to me again, we discussed the ginger event after it really surprised Kelly. It really, so, so when you, when my in, I had no intention of doing that. Okay. My intention is to be in the presence of the divine and let the world take care of itself in terms of the, the, the spirituality of it. And when one enters into the flow and the intention is for the oneness of being, all these crazy little tiny things happen.

Um, and you’ve probably had these serendipities yourself. Uh, but those can be increased. The more we decrease. And there’s this, the last thing I’ll say is that, and one of the gospels, uh, is Jesus is getting baptized by John the Baptist. Uh, John the Baptist says. He must increase his I decrease. And the symbolism there is that the egoic self decreases as the divine self increases. And that these two things work in parallel and through meditation and, and mental focus, you can aid that process. Us,

Guy:
Yeah. I love it. Love it. That’s a great story, mate. Yeah. Isn’t that true? Life can be so much fun if we let it as well, right? Absolutely. Pete, where can the, where, what’s your YouTube channel called? I make sure. Uh, um, so

Peter:
Peter, Panagore.

Guy:
Panagore. Beautiful.

Peter:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
your website.

Peter:
Peter, Panagore.love.

Guy:
Love, love it. I’ll make sure it links it in the show notes as well. Peter. Uh, look, thank you so much, my man. Um, loved it. As always. Really deeply appreciate your time coming on the show. And, uh, no, no doubt everyone would’ve been inspired by this conversation today. So thank you greatly, my

Peter:
Thank you guy.

Guy:
Thank you.

Peter:
Well, thank you very much. I love talking to you. Great questions.

Guy:
Thank you.