Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy:
Have you explored other realities that are different from Earth?

Thomas:
I have. I’ve been in a dozen of them or so. You’ve explore ’em from the outside. You’re like a spirit. You’re just a voice in their head where if you have a good working relationship, a larger conscious system, you can get put in their data stream so you can become a part of their virtual reality. And then you have an avatar there. And you have a, a body that you can interact with them. So now you can shake hands and slap ’em on the back. And it’s a physical interaction.

Guy:
Like here on Earth. Not physical.

Thomas:
Yeah, physical. Our universe is a virtual reality, but there are other universes, is what I’m saying. You only can do that. If the system allows you to, you render the body there that you can log onto, but it won’t do that for you if you aren’t responsible.

Guy:
Guy here. Welcome to my Let It in podcast, where my awesome guest this week is Thomas Campbell. And I’ve had Tom on the podcast many times before, uh, and I’ve certainly slowly gotten to know him through the podcast over the years, and this was an incredible conversation. You might be wondering where I’m standing right now. We’re actually. Halfway through our live and flow retreat here in Australia in the rainforest up in Northern New South Wales is pretty phenomenal. And I, I just will squeeze this intro in basically the, when chatting to Tom, it’s interesting the theme that come out of this retreat as well. That got me, um.

Wanting to talk about, because we do some in the child work here as well. And uh, what came through yesterday was the wounded child or the wonder child. So, so as we heal those aspects of ourself, uh, you can tap into the child of wonder and awe and possibility, and I love that. And I love. Embodying that, that wonder in my life and when I had Tom on the podcast this time, I really wanted to dive into some conversations I don’t hear him talk about too often, and really get that sense of wonder and all what is possible in the cosmos, in the universe, and within this thing we call life. And I certainly got a lot of that from there. Today, it dives deep down rabbit holes. And if you’re new to Tom Campbell, brace yourself because it’s some profound stuff comes outta here. And of course, if you, if you are a, a fan of Tom and you listen to him often. I certainly hope you enjoy this podcast as well.

If you’re tuning in from YouTube, please be sure to let me know where you are in the world in the comments below. I love connecting with you guys and reading the comments when I can. Also, um, if you do enjoy the podcast, uh, if you hit the subscribe or share it, that helps continue to reach, continue the support of the podcast, I mean, allows me to continue to reach out to more and more guests and, and keep the momentum going ’cause we really are. Wanting to get this workout to as many people as possible and so they understand what is possible with us. I’ll give you a quick look. This is the octagon, so this is the guy Mia. Eco spa retreats here in uk U uh, UKI in Northern New South Wales, this phenomenal retreat center. The owners, Steven and Sonya are just beautiful humans.

We’ve been working with ’em since we started living flow six and a half years ago and coming here, and this octagon holds an amazing resonance when you’re doing the sound journeys, the meditations, the, the inner work, ah, it’s phenomenal magnesium pool up there. Anyway. Enough of that, uh, enjoy this podcast with Tom. Much love from me and I certainly hope to meet you in person somewhere, somewhere on the planet at some stage. And if you listen to the podcast, please be sure to come up to me and just say hi, and gimme a hug. Okay? We are we gonna be in New Zealand, Tasmania, Croatia, for the five day retreat in November. Come into Perth, let’s do this. Getting out there as much as you can Anyway, see you soon.

Guy:
Tom, welcome back to the podcast. So nice to see you.

Thomas:
Well, good to see you.

Guy:
I believe it’s about the fourth time you’ve been on the show now. And, um, and I was thinking about the conversation I wanted to kind of bring out to, to share with everyone today, because I don’t know if you know this Tom, but when I stumbled across your work back in about, must be about 10 years ago now, thinking back, I was going through a lot of transitions, uh, in my life and felt like there was a new, uh, emergence of myself coming through version 3.0 if you like, more, more of, uh, awakening. But, uh, I was put onto your work and. Listening to how you speak and how it interjected your view on reality was really helpful for me. ’cause there was, I think, a lot of fear coming up at the time I was having, starting to have out body experiences and I wasn’t quite sure what the hell was going on per se.

’cause it was all new to me, even though logically I had, uh, I could understand it, but when it was experiential it was very different. So I devoured your content for every day. I would listen to you speak and it was, yeah, it really helped a lot. So I just wanted to mention that first off the bat, um, as I’ve continue to navigate and explore what, what it means to be human. So thank you. First of all, I

Thomas:
Well, you’re very welcome. It’s, it’s always good to hear some people’s experience with it, but I do hear a lot of that. That’s, most people that, uh, read my work report that it’s changed their lives. That’s, that’s pretty typical. Well, if they just read it intellectually, it won’t change much at all. But if they really get it and think about it and, and start to live it, then it’s a, it’s a pretty big game changer.

Guy:
It, it’s huge and it’s that, that dissolving of fear and actually being the representation of love, that was something I really got out of it. And actually the moment I could really start to lean into that, especially outside of the body, it would, everything would shift instantaneously. And that was, it was almost like the bigger reality was mirroring back to me this, this lesson to learn. And really to see almost the illusion of it in some ways. I, I can’t even put it into words, but that was a big thing for me that to take into my everyday life. It was huge. Absolutely huge.

Thomas:
well that, that happens a a lot. And the last person to say that to me was, uh, Peter Sage, and I don’t know if you’ve kept up with that. Uh, big extreme, um, uh, would be athletic or anyway, contest where. A bunch of boats started out from Europe and they rode, these are rowboats and they rode across the Atlantic to, to uh, America. And it was like 45 days. And there was two people in a boat, or at least in his boat, and they, uh, had to row continuously. You couldn’t let it, you know, sit, you had to, somebody had to be running for, to them it was everybody. Each person would, would row for 12 hours every day. And they take two hours on, two hours off, two hours on.

And they just did that continuously 24 hours a day for like 45 days. And of course they’re being tossed around like a little cork on the ocean the whole time. And, uh, Peter told the story about when he, who is very much a big MVT fan, and, and he has, he has, uh, absorbed MVT at, at the being level. So he, he lives it as well as. That was it. When he would come out, he would try to be one with, with the ocean, one with the environment, just kind of connect to be a part of it and start his rowing. And when he did that, the ocean would settle down, the waves would decrease, you know, the, the wind would blow favorably and he’d be able to do his two hours.

When the other guy came out who was a, uh, a military special forces type, his idea was this was a fight, this was a struggle. You get out there and you push the boat through the water, you know, that sort of thing. And as soon as he took the orders, the wind would pick up, the waves would get higher, they would get choppy, and the boat would start to heav around and twice it, it actually knocked him such a loop that he couldn’t row for like three days or something that he got hit in the head. But all of it was, was, uh, violent. And uh, Peter tells the story that. You know, in this particular case, if you, if you let the, you know, if you connect with everything, you find peace, you find tranquility, you find it works with you, you’re organic with it. And if you’re fighting it, trying to dominate it and control it, it’ll fight back.

It doesn’t want to be controlled. So it was the same thing. He, this is day and nights, so he’d just, he’d get out and take the orders and everything would calm down. The, the guy would touch the orders and everything would get rough. So that’s because, you know, uh, intent modifies future probability and it’s easier to do that when there’s a lot of uncertainty. Well, you’re out in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, there is no one in sight. You’re all alone. And just exactly how the winds are and the waves are, and all the rest of it has all a lot of uncertainty in it. So it’s one of those situations that it’s very easy to influence. So. Anyway, that’s a, that’s a similar story. You know, if you go with the flow, if you become a part of it, if you stop struggling it and try to force it to be the way you want it, then everything usually works out

Guy:
Wow.

Thomas:
very well. You don’t, you know, you don’t have problems. But if you fight it and try to force it and demand it to be the way you want it, when you want it, it pushes back. And it’s a constant uphill struggle. It’s a constant, oh, got over that barrier now. Oh, there’s another barrier. You know? And every time you think you’ve made it past a barrier, another barrier shows up. And it’s just an unending struggle with life when you’re trying to be the controller of your life and what happens.

So if you just move with it, it becomes a lot easier and more graceful in this situation is, is better. So that’s just another, you know, another example in a totally different context of the exact same thing that you just. That you just mentioned. It’s, it’s just the way reality works.

Guy:
I, I love it. I, and. I’d never thought about it. What you said then, in the fact that when it’s, the more chaotic it is, the more you can influence the probability in terms of outcome, especially when there’s less observers, I’m guessing. ’cause it was just him in the boat. And obviously the more observers there are, the more it’s gonna be influencing the likely outcome I would imagine.

Thomas:
Yeah. So he was all alone, so it wasn’t, uh, anything that happened was not observed by anybody other than himself and his partner. And there was a lot of uncertainty into where the waves were. The wind, you know, he’s just in his one little spot of ocean. Uh, it could be any sort of way, you know, there’s a lot of randomness there in that one little piece of ocean. So, uh,

Guy:
Wow.

Thomas:
said it was, it was so, so striking and so obvious that. He was working with the environment, with the boat, with the, with the sea, just with everything. And he was, he had, he had kind of surrendered to whatever happens, happens, and he was just gonna do his part and, and, uh, was gonna do it cheerfully and positively and have no fear. And he did that and he got, he, he mo most of the miles they, they covered I think were probably his miles because he, he was more efficient and more effective at the yours. And his, his friend actually got knocked out twice and uh, had a, had a real hard time trying to make the boat go.

Guy:
I can imagine. And once you have experiences like that, it only continues to reinforce yourself at the being level, doesn’t it? And, and the, the

Thomas:
Yes,

Guy:
more you bring that in.

Thomas:
Yeah. So when his. When his partner, you know, got heavier seas and, and worse conditions, he just, he’d just pull harder, you know, he, he’s gonna pull his way through it. He was gonna tame it. He wasn’t gonna surrender to it, that sort of thing. So that was his attitude, was to fight it. And, uh, he, he didn’t really win that fight, you know, it, uh, it did just the opposite. That attitude of, I’m going to control and I’m gonna make it be the way I want. I am going to exert my will on this situation. That actually probably made the waves and the wind and all those things got worse. It’s not just that they were normal. And then when Peter wrote that they got better, I think his attitude made everything worse.

That kind of attitude creates obstacles and creates problems for you because those are all your lessons to learn. Uh, every time you try to. Push reality into your box and make it be the way you want. Reality is gonna push back and give you a lesson that, that doesn’t work. You need to try something else. So he said he always knew that Peter said. He said he, he had that theory, he understood it and it happened in his life, but had never been so stark and so immediate as it was in that row across Atlanta.

Guy:
Yeah, that’s where you hear people talk of miracles. We had the same thing. I don’t know if you remember the fires that were raging through Australia. Um, probably just before COVID, we had the fires and then we went straight into COVID. But the, the fires, we actually, um, were running a retreat and the fires were still on. They weren’t directly effective where the retreat center was, but on the last day, it hadn’t rained for about six weeks. And on the last day of the event, we did a group healing and we asked the lady, um, who were you gonna help support heal? What is your intention? And she said, it’s not to heal, but it’s for rain because my, um, the fires are very irony about a kilometer from my home and I’m worried from my home.

So we went into this group healing and no word of a light on the same. The moment we came out of it, the thunder clouds happened and the the heavens opened up. It just started raining and we hadn’t, and it was been hot for the last five days at this retreat that we were running and there was 30 of us and we all had put our intent in that and it was, it was unbelievable. We were so excited We all actually ran out in the rain in our clothes and jumped in the swimming pool like the little children, like giddy little children because it was reaffirming exactly what you just said then.

Thomas:
Yes.

Guy:
Yeah, no, it’s phenomenal.

Thomas:
Yeah. And the same principles work in your everyday life. It doesn’t have to be something dramatic like rain or a calm sea. It, uh, just your everyday life works exactly the same way.

Guy:
Yeah, I know. And when you think of the pace of life and how we are conditioned to strive through life and to make it work, and, and there’s this constant push and the sense of feeling that we’re in control. And it always feels like the, the, the carrot is three steps in front of us and we never, we never get

Thomas:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the way life works is that. Stuff happens. You’re in a situation with other people, other things and things happen. And most of us, most humans, spend the greatest part of their energy on trying to make the things happen that they want to happen, know, trying to, to make reality, give them what they want. And the way that life really works is it doesn’t really matter so much what happens, and it matters a little, but that’s not the big thing. The big thing is how do you deal with it? How do you deal with what happens? And if you deal with it, you know the right way. If you deal with it with love and caring and, and, uh, calmness, then what will, what you’ll get out of that is you’ll grow up, you’ll learn, and your life will become happy and productive, and things will work well for you.

But as long as you focus on. What happens rather than how you deal with it, you’re going to find rough sailing. You’re going to find it. You know, life is always seems to back you into a corner. Life seems to always give you obstacles to get over. It’s never quite right the way you want it, need it to. That’s never, that’s never ending. So it’s the, it’s the idea that what happens is significant, but it’s not where the, the most significance lies. It’s mostly just how do you deal with what happens except that, that that’s what happens. Don’t try to control it. Just let it fall out, however it falls out, and then deal with it with love and caring and you know, kinda low entropy choices and everything will work out okay.

Now, that’s scary for most people because they say, well, I. If I didn’t try to manipulate things to be the way I want ’em, everything would go to hell in the hand basket and we, you know, everything would be horrible. The only reason it’s, it’s as good as it is, is because I, I manipulate and I’m successful some of the time, but that’s a belief that isn’t true. The more we try to control it, the more pushback we get, the more, the more problems we have to deal with, and then we become our own worst enemy. We’re the one that’s creating the problems that we have, and we’re creating them because our attitude is outta line with the nature of reality.

Guy:
Wow. Ain’t that the truth? That’s a yeah. No, thank you for sharing. It is a great way to start a podcast. I, um, I wanted to explore the topic as well. ’cause what I’ve found over the years, through my own experiences, more questions, raise more questions, um, but more from, um. Just a curious and explorative side of things, you know? ’cause I, I, I, I, I’m always wondering, like, pondering on what’s possible and it’s like, wow, isn’t that amazing that I’ve heard different things. I remember reading Bob Monroe’s, uh, journeys Outta Body many years ago when before I’d stumbled across your work, Tom. But there were elements in that that were like, really, really, and I’ve heard you speak of them as well.

And I was wondering if you’d, you’re open to speaking about it as well. ’cause I’ve heard you of different experiences, like when people die, you’ve been able to help them transition, like leave your own body and, and go help people across, into what is happening. And also even going into other avatars as well on like, I think it’d be a great discussion or a topic talking point. Just so, just as a curiosity to, to what is possible out there. ’cause I think. Ultimately as well. There’s such a fear around death and, um, it can keep us feeling locked in, but I’ve, I’ve heard the saying many times, you know, if you, if you, if you accept death, you can fully live as well here at the, in this moment in time, which is something I ponder on as well, you know, as I get older.

Thomas:
Well that’s, that’s a good saying. I hadn’t actually heard that one, but it makes a lot of sense. That’s, uh, that’s true. People need to let go of that fear of death and, and partly the way, the reason they fear death is because they fear the unknown. If you are going into a place you’ve never been before, like an out body urine. Now some of the reality frame. Many people are very fearful when they do that because when you’re a person who just comes into a new place that you don’t understand and don’t know about, then people are afraid. What if there’s something there that each people like me, you know, what if there’s something there?

What if I can’t get back? What if, what if, what if? And they have all these fears, and those fears will actually keep you from getting into the out-of-body state. You know, the, the fear is, is the problem for most people, uh, their intellect is the, is the second biggest problem. But in any case, death is just a part of life. That’s, that’s what we do. It’s, it’s part of the way we learn and grow. It’s not a final anything. Your existence, your, your ability to make choices within a, an environment that provides good, meaningful choices for you. This continues on. When you die, you simply let that avatar go. That avatar dies. You don’t die.

You’re a piece of consciousness. So you’re immortal. You never die. Avatars die. You know, if you play, if you play, uh, games like World of Warcraft, you know, you have an avatar and your avatars may be a, a magic user or a barbarian or an elf or something, and you play that character, almost always that character dies. Those kind of games, your characters die a lot. ’cause that’s how you learn things. You, you try this and try that, and if you character dies, you know, those were bad choices. You try other things. So anyway, in the same way that, that game would not be interesting if you only got one shot at it, if you paid them, you know?

Guy:
Yeah.

Thomas:
dollars to be a part of the game. You went in there and the first time your character died, it’s like game over, you know, another a hundred dollars to, you know, to get back in the game. That game would fail and nobody would play it because you have to go through many, many, hundreds, hundreds of deaths in order to learn how to get around and you know what’s important and what’s not, what to do and what not to do. So you, you learn as you go. Our existence is very similar in that we have many incarnations, I call them experience packets. And when this life is over and your, your avatar dies, you as a piece of consciousness end up with another avatar and it doesn’t take that long before you end up with another avatar, and now you get to do it again.

But what you come into this life with as a piece of consciousness is just the quality of consciousness that you earned. When you exited your last avatar, when you exited your last body. So if you lived your life and it was a low entropy life, full of love and caring and, and service, then you leveled up. You now have, you know, higher quality of consciousness and when you incarnate the next time you go in with that higher level of consciousness. But that’s all you go in with. Just that higher level of consciousness, no memory. Um,

Guy:
Yeah. Right.

Thomas:
very, very little connection between past experiences. So the idea there is you have to then express your quality of consciousness again through totally different situations. So you can’t really game the system. You have these constantly new situations where you have to make choices. By those choices you evolve or do evolve. So you, you make choices and generally you’ll make better choices if you leveled up last time, you’ll make better choices. Uh, if you, if you make poor choices, you’ll, you’ll get the poor results that fall up. Poor choices. Now, let me explain. A good choices are low entropy choices, which means choices based on love, caring, service cooperation, compassion, all those things. And the poor choices are high entropy choices, which are self-centered, uh, choices. It’s fearful choices, choices made out of ego, choices made out of belief.

Those choices will devolve the quality of your consciousness. So the whole point of this is to, is to evolve the quality of your consciousness to have a higher and higher quality of consciousness each time. n. The things that you have to deal with in any incarnation. Some of those might be planned, but for the most part they’re not. Anyway, so the way that works is you are a piece of consciousness and you are logged on to an avatar. That’s your body. You make all the choices for the body. Um, those choices are just created out of your interaction with other people and with the environment and so on. You. There’s choices and that’s why you’re there to make choices.

And by making good choices, you evolve the quality of your conscious bad choices. You do evolve it. You get to a point where your avatar dies. Now, why does the avatar have to die? Well, because eventually as you get older and older and older, most people kind of get into that. Been there, done that. Mindset and their body’s old so they don’t feel good and they have pains and they have this and that. It gets to be uncomfortable. But mostly as far as their ideas and understandings and concepts, they paint themselves into a corner. They get some ideas and concepts and areas and things that they’re comfortable with, and that’s it. They form beliefs and they’re not open to anything else because that’s just where they’ve ended up and that’s the way it is and that’s how they believe.

So the amount of growth you get and making choices starts to slow down a lot. And the older you get, the fewer choices you have, the fewer things you can do. You don’t run and play and join in sports and you know, you, you don’t have as many choices as you had. So your choices reduce as the body ages and your, your. Sense of what’s possible, which is really what we’re talking about here. Your sense of what’s possible kind of decreases too, as you get that, been there, done that, I can understand all the possibilities and there probably isn’t anything else when there’s actually a lot of everything else that you didn’t know about at all.

So it’s good then for that body to die, for you to then reincarnate in a, in a, a baby, a young person that grows up and has all these experiences again. So the fact that there is death is a part of the process. So death is a part of life. It’s with the video game, it’s the same way. Like I say, if your elf never, you know, didn’t die, you would never learn anything. The way you learn how to play the game is getting into trouble. Your, your elf doesn’t make it. And now, you know, don’t walk into that cave unless you’re prepared, so you’ve learned something new. So anyway, it’s sort of, it’s like that. So that’s the death process. So think of it as just you’re beginning a new chapter.

So you, your life is a very, very thick book with thousands, maybe tens of thousands of lifetimes. And once your avatar dies, you start a new chapter with a new avatar and new opportunities to make good choices. So in that case, uh, the death experience isn’t a scary experience. It’s a, oh good, I get to, I get to leave this old, you know, painful body that doesn’t serve me so much anymore, and I get another opportunity to grow. You know, and if you did poorly last time, you can say, well, I hope next time I do better, or I hope I do as well next time as I did this time or whatever. So you die. And when you, when your avatar dies, your connection with that avatar starts to disappear. Just like dreams disappear when you wake up. If you’ve had a dream, you wake up instance, you wake up, that dream is clear.

You remember every detail of it. A minute later, it’s kind of fuzzy around the edges. Two minutes later, it’s very fuzzy, five or 10 minutes later. You can’t pull the details out of that dream. You got a sense of the big part of it, but the details kind of disappear. And that’s the way your, your sense of the last life is when you first make that transition, you’ve kinda got a sense of it clearly, but very quickly you lose it and it’s gone. And that’s, that’s the end of that particular avatar. Then you get another avatar. In the meantime, if you’re, if you have a lot of confusion and, and not much understanding, you may do a life review. You may, you know, you may do have some counseling, you may have some other things going on, but if you don’t need that, then you can skip that.

That’s not like it’s custom fit for each person. Each person gets kinda what they, what they need, and then another avatar is picked for you to give you the kind of experience you need to grow more. You know, you don’t want some situation that’s really, really harder than you can deal with, or really, really easier If it’s too easy, you won’t learn much. If it’s too hard, you may not do very well with it, maybe beyond your ability to deal with well, so the system tries to give you a a nice spot that has a good probability of working out, but. Who knows how things work out. People have free will. You know, the choices that get generated outta people’s free will have a pretty big random component to them.

Uh, so it could go anyway. So everybody has some, has some, uh, experience packets that didn’t work out too well. You know, they’re bad. You didn’t do a very good job. You de evolved a little bit and everybody has some where it was really great, you know, you excelled and most of ’em are someplace in between. So if you’re having a particularly hard time, well know that next time it’ll, you’ll have a, another whole shot at, you know, doing it better. But if you don’t grow up any, if you don’t lower your entropy or become, uh, you know, more of a person of love and caring, then you’ll be in about the same situation you were last time.

And there’s a good chance you’ll do about as well as you did last time. And the growth process is very slow. Because the changes you need to make are not intellectual. It’s not that you have to understand this in your mind. It’s that you have to change who you are. It’s not about being kind. It’s about, I mean, it’s not about, uh, it’s not about acting kind. It’s about being kind. That’s a big difference. That’s why you don’t get into the new avatar with memory. If you had the memory of your last, you know, your last avatar, you’d know, you’d know what the, what the game was. Oh, I should do it this way. Oh, I, I need to be nice to that person. And you’d begin gaming, you know, the situation rather than just acting out of who you are and what you are.

So you don’t want that, that knowledge. You want to be able to interact and express yourself just exactly who you are at the core, because that’s how you learn. If you game the system and did everything just right because you knew that was the right answer, you wouldn’t grow up in it at all. Your other people around you might appreciate it, but uh, your growth would still be close to zero because it wasn’t you doing it, it was your intellect trying to gain the test. So anyway, that’s basically how the life and death thing works. I skipped over a lot of the details,

Guy:
okay.

Thomas:
uh, you know, how, how do I know? Sometimes I, I say that and people say, well, how do you know how, why? You sound like you’re so sure. How’s that? Well, several reasons. One, I’ve gone through that process with myself, of course, as everyone has, and I’m aware of it. But mostly it’s because of two things. One, I’ve gone through the process with other people. Someone who is, who is dying, that I know of, I can connect to there. Their consciousness and just go through the process with them, which means I’m aware of everything they’re aware of, so I know what they’re feeling and thinking.

And so it’s kind of a mind to mind connection. That’s not too hard. It’s just all consciousness is needed. So you just open that link and connect to that person, consciousness to consciousness, and you go through their experience. And I’ve done that multiple times with people who, uh, died. And when I was much younger, the larger consciousness system, which is the kind of the over system here, it gave me a job in what I call the transition reality. That’s where people kind of wake up from the, after they, their avatar has died. And I worked there for, I don’t know, 10, 20 more, uh, nights in a row. Every time I’d lie down and go to sleep, there I was. I had a job there. I was like, I sort of like it. Well, I don’t know if this means anything in your country, but sort of like a Walmart greeter, you know, one of those people that stands outside or right inside the door, you know, and says, oh, welcome to the store.

You know, it was sort of like that. I, I was there to observe pretty much. And, uh, so I, I spent a lot of time there observing and being a part of it. And, and, uh, mostly what happens there is when you’re, like I say, when you kinda wake up and realize you’re not where you were before, you’re in a different reality. Your memory of that old reality starts to fade like a dream. And to make sure that everybody kind of relaxes and accepts and lets go. They have a lot of busy work things to do. Oh, who are you? Uh, okay. You’re, you’re a guy, right? Yeah. Alright. See that, uh, lady over there with the red shirt? Go get in that line and, uh, they’ll check you in when you get there, or there’s really nothing to check in.

All that’s just made up work just to get you to have to stand around for a while while you let your press memories disappear and you kind of get used to what’s going on and, and modify, you know, your thinking and ideas. It just takes a little while for that transition to, to take place. And you need to make that transition. It’s best if you make the transition when you are, uh, uh, relaxed and okay, not upset or angry. Am I in heaven or am I in hell? You know, and you have all this stuff going on. Then that kind of gets in the way. So it’s just a, oh yes, we’ve been expecting you come over here and do this and do that. And pretty soon you talk to the other people that are there and you relax and let it go.

And then pretty soon you’re, you’re ready to maybe do some counseling and, and go back. So that’s the, that’s the general idea of what, of how we go around. This, uh, life and and death. Now, talking about the possibilities. The possibilities, just understanding the possibilities will open your mind. We, we have a thing that I call decision space. Each person has their own decision space. And decision space is all the choices that you have that you know you have. So, you know, maybe you get to a fork in the road and you say, well, I can go down A or go down B. And those are choices. Well, there may be four or five other things that you could do besides A or B, but you’re not aware of them.

You’re only aware of A and B. So A and B. Then make up the choices you have at that moment, you know, to move ahead with that particular thing. So your decision space is just those set of things that you can choose between when you make your choices. Like, how am I gonna act to this person? They just said something that, uh, I didn’t like. So how am I gonna react? Well, I’m gonna be upset. Am I going to not be upset and uh, you know, just engage ’em in conversation. Am I gonna smile and walk away when I’m really grinding my teeth? You know, I got a lot of choices. What can I do about that? And it’s the same thing. You make good choices and you will evolve.

You make poor choices and you don’t. So death is not a scary thing. It’s part of the process of growing up. We don’t want to be, you know, dead ended painting ourself in a corner where we no longer are growing. Um, you know, we’re growing maybe very, very slowly, but the rate of growth slows down a lot. So we need that renewal. We need that rebirth, if you like, in order to keep making progress. So death. It is not really a big deal. And this life that you’re living is not the big deal either. You’ve had tens of thousands, perhaps, of these lives and you have a very fat book with a lot of chapters in it, and you’re growing because of all of ’em.

You know, the, the, the individuated unit of conscious that you are, it looks at the, at the life you just had, the choices you made, and it looks for patterns. It says, well, the last 10 lives, ah, this person’s really had a big problem with, you know, relationships or with, um, anger management or something. So that’s what you need to work on. So let’s put you in a, in an incarnation where those choices come up a lot ’cause that’s what you have to work on so that the, uh, the individual at unit of conscious looks across many lifetimes for trends, things that are, would be helpful, things that are not helpful. Maybe there’s some negative trends in there too that you need to watch out for.

So that’s where the, where the, uh, kind of counseling session comes from. And then you are asked, are you ready for another one? Or do you need more time to think about it? And when you say, yes, I’m ready. Well, then’s something’s picked for you that’s appropriate, and off you go. And if you say, no, I’m not ready. I don’t, you know, I don’t wanna go back there. The last life is just too horrible. I don’t, you know, I’m done for a while. Well, that’s okay too. You never, you, you’ll never be in a situation where your free will is overrun. Free will is kind of a sacred thing in consciousness, and the system will not overrun your free will.

You, uh, you always are able to make the choices that you want to, and then you deal with the consequences of those choices and the consequences of not coming back to do more work. Is that you don’t have the opportunity to grow up as much. So eventually, uh, people kind of figure that out. Go back. Now there’s other places you could go. There’s other virtual realities besides the one we call our physical universe. There’s other physical universes and you know, other pieces of consciousness if you like. So you could go to one of those others, but most people don’t because then you’ve got a whole new set of things to learn. New ways of interacting.

New ways of communicating. And it’s usually, uh, better if you keep going to the same one because you’re already familiar with how that works. It’d be like, uh, playing the world of Warcraft and then suddenly deciding you, you’re gonna shift to the sims. Well, the things you learn in World of Warcraft, jazz aren’t gonna help you a whole lot in the Sims. It’s a totally different kind of place. You pretty much have to start over at the beginning. Whereas if you go into a, a different version of World of Warcraft, you already know a whole lot about what’s going on and, and what works and what doesn’t. So you tend to go back to the same reality frame that you have been experiencing in, but it’s not necessary.

Guy:
Have you explored other realities like that then or that are different from Earth in.

Thomas:
Yes, I have, I’ve been in maybe, uh, a dozen of them or so, and you have, you have two choices of the way you can explore ’em. And what most people do is they explore ’em by kind of being an observer. In other words, you, you explore ’em from the outside you, to them, you’re like a, a spirit to them. You’re just a voice in their head so you can communicate with them and they, uh. If they’re sensitive to that, they will might, they will recognize you and maybe have conversations with you if they’re, if they’re not sensitive to it, they’ll just think that that’s their own mind talking. And they may, you may confuse them, but many times you can interact with their consciousness on a level that they’re not really cognitively aware of.

So your consciousness and their consciousness can have a dialogue and they’re not necessarily aware of that dialogue at their level. So that’s the way it’s typically done is a telepathic connection while you can see kind of what’s, what’s happening, you, you interact with individuals or you can see broader, sort of like remote viewing, I guess. You know, it’s that, that kind of a connection. But you also, if you have a good working relationship with the larger conscious system, you can get put in their data stream so you can become a part of their virtual reality. And then you have a, you have an avatar there. And you have a, a body that you can interact with them. So now you can shake hands and slap ’em on the back. And it’s a, it’s a physical interaction, but you can only do

Guy:
like here on earth, that physical.

Thomas:
Yeah, yeah. Physical. So these are other physical, like, uh, virtually lots of different kinds of virtual realities. They’re not all like, like, uh, our, our, uh, what do you call it, universe? Our universe is a virtual reality. But there are other universes is what I’m saying. And, and some of ’em are like ours, you know, fundamentally the, there’s gravity. You know, things don’t just float around. You know, there’s, there’s gravity, there’s, you know, there’s beings that move and interact with their environment with each other and, and so on. Uh, a lot of the things are, are very similar because there’s only so many ways that you can, uh, develop a virtual reality. And if you find a way that works, you tend to use that. Even if the things that evolve there are very different. So they may not look like us, but, or the, the creatures and things there may look different than us, but a lot of the fundamental physics is the same.

Guy:
Wow.

Thomas:
You know, it’s not, or, or similar, I shouldn’t say they’re the same, but it’s, it’s similar because that, that works. So if you get insinuated and then you are walking among them, uh, interacting with them, with the body that looks like them and the language is not a problem, you automatically can converse in their language. The system takes care of that translations. So you only can do that if the system allows you to and puts you in that, in that, uh, rendering engine, if you like, if you’re, if you’re rendered a body there that you can log onto, then you can do that, but it won’t do that for you. If you aren’t responsible, you are, when you come in like that, you have to not create a scene.

You have to not be seen coming in or, or leaving. You have to, uh, you know, mind your manners, not create any trouble, not make a ruckus, not stand out. You just have to kind of meld and keep a low profile and not create any, any problems. So if you do create problems, then the system is not likely to let you do that anymore. You’ll be proven not to be capable of doing that, you know, uh, and not creating problems. So it’s not something that you can just do on your own. So yes, we probably have NPCs walking around here, uh, non-player characters in a sense, or characters from other reality frames. I. We have those, but again, they have to be put here, allowed to be here.

So it’s not like these are evil things that are among us to figure out a ways to eat us or something. They have to be allowed to be put into the rendering engine that renders this particular virtual reality.

Guy:
That really blows my mind. When I hear you say those things, you know, of the things like we spoke about, what’s possible, what is happening while you are doing that, if you’re in another avatar, in another universe, like what is happening to you, Tom here, and this like, is time moving the same or is it completely different? Is it instantaneous?

Thomas:
the, the, there’s different times. Yes. Time is different. The my body, my avatar is sitting in a chair. Um, lying in a bed would be the two most likely things. But it could be, I’m walking around in a park, I could be doing that. You can, you can learn the parallel process to where you can be in multiple realities at the same time. Mostly in the beginning you just do one at a time. ’cause that’s less confusing. But as you kept more and more experience, you can, you can, uh, interacting in, uh, different realities at the same time. It’s sort of like picture in a picture where you go into a sports bar and they have five different athletic teams all playing at the same time and, and you’re watching all of them.

Well, you can’t watch all of them at a hundred percent if there’s five games going on, you know, uh, you could, you could watch, you know, 10%, this one, 30%, that one 5%, this one, you know, 20% that one till it adds up to a hundred percent and that’s it. You know, you spread what a tension you have over the things that are available. So I’ve found it. Two realities at once is not so hard. Three is not too bad, four is stretching it, and five is just too confusing. So it’s just, you know, you, you’re limited by your experience basically. You know, the first time you go into a sports bar, you have a hard time looking at everything, but if you go into sports bars a lot, you can just kind of take ’em all in at once and you can tell where the action is by the, by the sound.

You know, the, the noise gets louder when you got something really exciting going on and your, your focus will shift from one to the other, to the other, but you kind of keep all of ’em in mind. And it’s like that, it’s useful. Like if someone comes up to me and says, Tom, my, my mother just had a heart attack and she’s doing this, and she’s doing that and, and, you know, can you help her out? Well, when he first talks and says, my mother’s having medical issues. While he’s telling me, I’ve already gone there, connected with his mother, finding out what’s the problem, why the problem exists, and what it is she needs most, and what I can do about it. And I started fixing it and working on it while they’re talking to me.

So I’m working in two realities there and having a conversation and this reality reality, and I’m doing healing work in another reality. So that’s pretty easy to do and it, it just is more efficient than having to do everything linearly. One at a time.

Guy:
And is that because it’s all information and you’re literally able to access her information database per se, and.

Thomas:
exactly. It’s all information so you can just access that, that information, everything. That’s what’s real. What’s real is information. There’s nothing more real than information, so. Information about everyone everywhere is available because this is rendered. And when it’s rendered, they, that’s where, you know, they have to render the information that’s there. So the system knows all the information about everything that’s happening.

Guy:
And it’s about then developing that awareness and intent to, because you know, I look at my, my Mac that I’m on talking to you, right. And I think, wow, the processing power on this and the amount of information that’s running through this to make this conversation possible. It’s like though, how would I, with so much information, how do I know how to access the very bit of information that I need to do the thing I want?

Thomas:
Yeah. Well, everybody struggles that even here, you know, you want something, you want, you wanna find something that is not all that easy sometimes. So you, you know, there’s lots of things you, you have to know, you know, where the places are to go look. You know, you just don’t randomly start clicking URLs to see what’s there. You, you go to maybe a Google or, or you know, one of the other search engines. You say, well, what I’m interested in is these things. Well, then that does a big sort for you. And now the, the things that closest match what you said are at the top and they get less, less go to match as they go, as they go down.

And you make it thousands of pages to, to look through. But usually you don’t have to go more than about one or two pages before it starts getting off the track. So then you look at all that stuff and you pick one and then, oh, that’s not what you wanted. So you pick another one and that’s not what you wanted. So you go back and you change your query a little bit to make it more tighter, you know, less, less broad. The, the more precise it is, the the better returns you’re going to get from the, from the rent, from the, uh, system. So it’s about the same way you have to learn. Ropes your only way to learn it’s with experience.

Same with our internet, right? It’s experience. You take somebody that’s never been at a computer, never maybe even seen a computer, and you sit ’em down in front of a computer and it’s gonna be the most mystical thing they’ve ever seen. I mean, you sit down there and you click on this and it opens a link, and then you click that you type in something and hit a button and stuff comes up and uh, you know, you look like a, a complete genius because you know how to do all these things. And the person who’s never seen it is can’t do any of that, you know? So it’s a matter of experience. The more you experience it, then the easier it gets. And it’s the same way with exploring the larger consciousness system. We are a piece of consciousness. That system is, is is where we live. That’s, you know, we’re a piece of that larger system and we can explore it, uh, with our consciousness.

So. It takes experience. The more experience, the more, the more places you go, the more things you see, the more you understand and it gets easier to work at. You kind of know how to start. If you start this way, you get in that way. You know, if you go to another direction or another way, it turns out differently. You know how to make good queries and you realize that you can, if you make a query and it’s not what you want, you can refine it and refine it. You know, keep refining it until you do get what you want. All the same things work that work here with an internet, it’s, it’s information. Consciousness is an information system, so it, it works very much like any information system.

Guy:
Yeah. Amazing. Do you ever, do you ever ponder or feel, or you might even, you probably know the answer, but why, why this has happened to you, like through your life, your experiences, why, you know, source or spirit or however you wanna term it. Giving you these experiences to show what happens after death, these explorations reality, you know, like when you look at the, the life you’ve lived, Tom on a living, it’s like, it’s, it’s mind blowing, you know, from, from that experiential

Thomas:
yeah, I have looked at that and I was, you know, I came here into this incarnated, into this particular time and, you know, this reality with sort of a mission to do. And as I look back at past lives that I’ve had the last three or four, I can see that I really was in training, you know, getting better, better understanding, uh, uh, deeper. Concepts and so on. I’ve been in training for several lifetimes to be here, and this may be another part of that training for, you know, what comes next. I don’t know, but I can look back and say, oh, okay, here’s where I learned that stuff. Oh yeah, there’s where I had those problems and I learned a lot there.

So I can see that it’s all kind of cumulative. And I’m here with a, with a mission, and part of that mission was to write the books I wrote, which was odd. I knew that I was going to be an author, I was going to write books, and that was going to be a very significant part of my life when I was, you know, 20 years old, but had no idea what about, or what the subject was or when it would happen. I just knew that that was somewhere in the future and that, uh, it would be a, you know, a big thing for me to do. That was part of the plan and. Right up to within probably five or yeah, probably within five or so years of when I actually started writing, I still didn’t have any idea of what that was all about.

I just had that premonition, that understanding that that would take place. And I didn’t sit down and start writing because I was gonna write a book. I just sat down and started writing because that would force more clarity to my thinking. ’cause when you write, you have to be clear and concise and so on. If you’re just thinking, you can do some pretty big jumps in logic and not even notice it, you know, because that, well, this makes sense. Oh yeah, that makes sense too. But there may not be any logical trail, you know, to get from from one to the other. But writing makes you clarify your thoughts. And I just started writing to help me understand what I was doing and to help explain it to a friend of mine who was asked me questions.

I didn’t intend to write a book. I started writing and I’d show it to people and say, what do you think of this? And they’d roll their eyes and say, does it make any sense at all? So I, I’d go write some more to make it more, more understandable, and I’d give it to somebody else and they’d say, well, I kind of get this, but where’s that coming from? And I’d write some more to explain that. And five years later, I had a whole lot more than a book and I said, oh my God, what am I gonna do with all this stuff? You know, it’s, it’s really too much. So then I ended up with three books at Trilogy and I sorted it all to make sense so that it went from the, from the, the easy got more difficult, and then wrapped up at the end.

So that’s how I ended up writing the books. And then looking back, I could see, ah, those were the books I was supposed to write. That’s the, you know, that that checks, that box is the things that I was supposed to do. So that was one of my tasks. And I had a, had other tasks as well. I would, uh. I was able to do things for the larger consciousness system or, or in the book I call this entity the Big Cheese. It’s kind of the, the, uh, manager of, uh, our virtual reality. And I was, I kind of was a troubleshooter for, for him to do things that the rules per prohibited him from doing. He can’t just interfere here. It’s not like the system is playing with its pet people, you know, and moving pieces around on the board.

It doesn’t do that. So it needs agents here that can have agency to help get things done or avoid things that are a problem when it does want to kind of nudge our development this way or that, then it has to do that through proxies. It just can’t come in and it can do a few things. It can put ideas in your head, it can give you. You know, if you, it can make you feel like that you need to go do this, it can do a few things, but it has to be subtle and it has to be something that you don’t

Guy:
Hmm.

Thomas:
think is coming from elsewhere, that you think it’s all part of your own, your own mind. So anyway, that’s, so I worked at that, that was another job that I, that I had. And the reason I was put to work, like in the transition reality, was just to show me around if I was gonna write a book about reality, I needed to have experienced it. So, I got sent many places, many, many places. Not, not because I really wanted to go there or anything, I was just sent there because there was something to learn, something that I would better understand.

The nature of reality, and that’s a problem without a body, is you can’t go to someplace until you know that it’s there. You know, you can’t, you can’t, you know, you can’t go unless it’s there. ’cause you go with your intent. It’s like teleporting. You have an intent to be in a particular part of this information streams that are available. And you can go there just with your intention, but if you don’t know they exist, then you can’t have an intention to go there. So the exploration has to be very slow. You explore this and then you explore this plus a little more. Then you, you keep coming back and adding to your map. You, you’re like making a map.

You know, think of an explorer first. Explorers that got to maybe America from Europe. Well, they don’t know anything about America, so they’re careful and they, they go a little bit inland and then they come back to the ship and they write on paper, you know, what they did and where they went and what the directions were and how far it was. And slowly they start mapping out the territory to where now they have hundreds of miles, uh, you know, mapped out. So it was the same thing. You have to do that, but it takes a long time. It’s very slow and people tend to get stuck. Beliefs. So the system just put me places, sent me places where I would learn and I’d get there and they wouldn’t tell me what to learn.

I just would get there and have to figure it out. And if I didn’t figure it out the first time, they’d send me back. That’s why I got sent back to the, to the transition reality, you know, many times because I needed to take in more and more and understand it better.

Guy:
Can I ask you a question on that? ’cause you just sparked something within me. Is that then? ’cause I got taken to a place, um, this was going back about maybe three years ago. And, and I, I came out and I was in a completely different world and it was majestic and I was shown and I was flying along the ocean front and it was very visceral, very experiential and very beautiful. And I remember I’d just go in awe of this was actually happening. And then, and then I went, next thing I know, it was like, it was like this pull, and then like I’m crashing into my body and I’m like, wow. That like, like, wow, that was, that happened. Like it was in Incre. And I pondered on that. Like why did that happen? Is that because the systems wanted to show me something or to experience something or just to lean into that

Thomas:
probably not. Why that happened was the experience saw that the, the system saw that you were ready to take the next step. That you were ready for some understanding, some different things about the nature of reality that, that you were at this point where you inquisitive, you were thinking about it, you are wondering, you know, what it was, what is this out and how does it work? So you’re inquisitive like that, or you just had an open mind? And was a person that could benefit by such an experience opening your mind to a larger reality. So it gave you that experience. It sends you a data stream that defined that experience. And those experiences often are, I’d say, even say more real than the experience here.

You can go, you can have those experiences, and the detail is finer. The, the colors are more saturated and beautiful. Everything is so pristine and perfect and, and whatever, uh, much more so than you’d, than you’d find here. And that’s one of the reasons that, you know, it’s not here because the, the coast wasn’t full of sun bathers and there wasn’t an oil slick, you know, on the water. And, you know, there were no hotels. And, you know, you, you get the sense of that you’re someplace else. You are not, you’re not here. So that was just a, just to show you that reality is more than just what you think. And if you did like you did and said, wow, that’s interesting. It’s a pretty good probability that they’ll show you something else a little bit later ’cause you dealt with that.

Okay. If instead you screamed and says, ah, what is this? Where am I? You know, I’m scared. What if there’s big monsters here? You know? And if you did that, then that’d probably be the end of it. You know, you would, uh, be seen to have too much fear to, you know, to be taught these things. So you, you seem to have your fear under control enough that you could do that. That was pretty easy, just kind of flying over, you know, the, the ground. So that was easy. And then later they probably got a little more complicated and pretty soon you get introduced to other entities and other, other people and it just keeps growing you a little bit by little bit and see how you deal with things.

And a lot of people, particularly young men. They, they have this idea that the way you fight evil is with force. You know, you take out your sword of truth and you chop it into little pieces. So they tend to go into realities where they see that there’s, uh, you know, bad things. Everything’s just not nice. Okay? You can do the nice things pretty well, but what if you get into one that has some negativity in it, some things that, that you don’t like? Well, how do you deal with that? And if you deal with it by whipping out your sword of truth and, and killing everything that you don’t like, then you don’t graduate from that.

You keep doing that and doing that until you either tire of it or you learn that that’s not the right approach. That’s not what’s helpful. You don’t make the world a better place by getting rid of everything that you don’t like. That’s not the right connection. So a lot of people go into these out bodies and they end up doing kung fu, you know, and they, they’re always fighting and, and, uh, trying to overcome evil by physical, by violent means, and they just keep doing it and doing it and doing it. And if they never grow up, well, that’s all they do. They go out, out of body and they get in fights. That’s their thing, because they haven’t outgrown that yet. But eventually you outgrow that and realize that that’s, this is not really going anywhere. It’s not, you know, and first the storyline is, yes, you’re being successful, you’re the hero.

You just save the world. But eventually you realize that’s just all a bunch of nonsense and that, uh, this is, you’re making the wrong choices because you’re not growing. You just keep getting the same thing over and over. I don’t mean the same thing that, that the things you see and and do are just repeated, but you get the same sort of thing. Same kinds of things, uh, over and over. So people get stuck there. The people who grow don’t, they leave that and they start, you know, seeing more things, more important things. They start having opportunities to teach, opportunities to help rather than opportunities to fight. And that grows and they, they take on those opportunities rather than, how can I control this?

You know, how, how can I make this be right? Of course, right is defined of what what they think is right. So, yeah, it’s, so you got that because you were ready and you started with something benign and it showed you that the reality was more than you thought. And it piqued your imagination. It piqued your curiosity. And you started saying, wow, I wonder if I can do more of that. Where was that? And you start playing with it and pretty soon you find that you’ve grown up some, you’re a different person than you were. You’ve realized that reality is much bigger than you thought. It’s not just this one universe, this one physical planet here and interacting with these people.

There’s more to it than that. So then you start thinking, well, what else is there? And, and I’d like to experience it. And that puts you into the category called seekers. You become a seeker. You start looking this stuff up on the internet saying, does anybody else had an experience like mine? And if so, you know, how did that work out? And so it’s, it’s a growth thing, it’s an introduction, and then it is carried on to help you grow up. So that’s what’s going on. You’ve become a person, you know, quote, person of interest that somebody that the larger conscious system can help, uh, grow up.

Guy:
Well, you’ve certainly opened, continue to open my mind today, Tom, through this podcast and conversation. I, I’ll say that much. It’s been phenomenal, mate. I, um, I got one last question for you ’cause I’ll have to wrap up the show in a sec ’cause of my time. But, um,

Thomas:
Okay.

Guy:
it, does it get to a point where we don’t come back like we’ve grown up and we move on and are there other roles within that, that universe?

Thomas:
Yeah. Well, there are other things you can do. It works like this. When in the beginning all you do is jump in and jump out because what you need is experience. So you’re a new individual unit of consciousness and you just need experience. So you jump into some, you know, you log onto somebody and you, and you make the choices, and then you pop out on it. When that person dies, you pop into another one, and it’s kind of in and out without a lot of thought or planning or anything else because you just need experience. Then as you get more experienced, it’s like, well, here’s a problem I’m working on, or here’s something I wanna stop doing. So now you start thinking more about it and picking particular kinds of incarnations you’re working on, particular problems.

Then when you get past that point where you’re evolving the quality of your consciousness even more, you start teaching, you start helping other people to understand, and you, you become a, a, uh, what a good example. Uh, that would be a teacher, just somebody that cares and somebody that’s positive and that sort of, and people will see you and say, wow, that person really seems to have it all together. I’d like to be like that. So you become a good example. And then if you grow up even more than that, then you are a better teacher, more qualified, can teach larger groups of people, uh, sort of thing. And then you just keep, keep coming back to teach, to help. To be a good example. And you do that because when, if we are evolving towards becoming love, love is the nature of a low entropy consciousness.

So you’re constantly lowering the entropy of your consciousness, becoming love, and your ability to be helpful to help others grow gets better and better. As you evolve yourself, there’s more and more you can do and better and better at being the teacher. Now, if you are a being of love and what you want to do is help other people, because that’s what love is. Love is about other, not about self. Well then this idea about, oh, I can’t wait till I get out of this hell hole called earth, man, this, this place sucks. It’s really hard down here. Okay, I’m gonna learn all this stuff. I’m gonna become enlightened, and then I, I graduate, I’m outta here. I’m not coming back.

What does that sound to you like? It sounds to me like it’s ego. It sounds to me like it’s belief. It’s, it’s somebody who hasn’t grown up very much because they’re still very self-centered. It’s all about them, not about other people. So as you grow up, you want to come back here and help because you can be more helpful because you’re more grown up. So you don’t get to a point where you just say, I’m done. Now you can go to other reality systems other than this one and work there, or you can come back here and work. There’s always people that need help. There’s always people that you know that you can help because there’s always new coming in at the bottom.

You know, it’s not like there’s only end people and all end of ’em grow up. Everything’s done. There’s always new people. As the population increases, new IOCs, you know, are are engaged in that, in that process. So. It’s not a, a fixed or a constant system. So anyway, no, you don’t ever get to the point that you’re done. And the reason is that entropy has this, this characteristic that if you don’t put energy into it to keep it low, it just gets, you know, it, it just gets, uh, more and more entropy. Entro just grows. There was a t-shirt I once made that said entropy happens. You know, entropy just happens. And that’s really the second law of thermodynamics, as makes that statement.

So, if you have a system and you can lower the entropy in it, but you, to keep it low, you have to keep feeding, you have to keep taking, you know, you know, you have to keep working at it. If you just let it sit, eventually the entropy will just get more and more and more. Everything has a shelf life. Even a, even a, a steel beam, you can take a big 12 inch eye beam, and if you let it sit long enough, it’ll disappear because you, everything has a vapor pressure. There’s little molecules, atoms of, of, uh, steel that, you know, they zing off. It’s called vapor pressure. There’s some parts of it just disappear. You know, just like an ice cube. You take an ice cube and you sit it in the freezer, and if you watch it and five years later the ice cube’s gone, just turns into water, vapor goes someplace else.

So that’s a, that’s the way entropy is. If you don’t keep putting work in, it starts to increase. So entropy is just this measure. If it, if your entropy’s low, then that’s a, a loving person. So anyway, so here you are. You are evolved. You’ve grown up a lot. You have very low entropy. If you just sit back and say, I’m done. You know, give me a harp and a cloud to sit on and I’m just gonna sit here and you know, play my heart for eternity. Well, one, that would be very, very boring. You wouldn’t learn anything. And if you’re not working at becoming love, if you’re not helping, if you’re not part of the solution, you become eventually part of the problem.

So you have to keep working at it. So no, there is no end in the sense that you get to do nothing. Now, you may decide to go to some other reality frame and help them out because maybe they need the kind of help that you can give, but you’re always going to be working on it. You are always going to need to, wanting to help to serve, to, to teach, because that’s what love is. It’s about helping others. So no, you never get to a point where you just say, I’m done because there’s, there is nothing else. That’s what we do. We’re consciousness. We’re. We’re parts of an information system and all of this, this information is trying to lower its entropy, become love, because that’s how, that’s how, uh, information systems evolve by lowering our entropy.

So it’s, it’s that sort of thing. And there are some spiritual disciplines. We say, oh yeah, you get to a point, you’re enlightened, and then you, you leave here and just hang out with enlightened people. But what’s the point of that? When you’re needed here to help other people grow up, that’s not service, that’s self-service. You know, that’s all about you. Well, that’s not people who are enlightened. That’s people who think they’re enlightened, not people who actually are. to answer your question, no, it’s never done. The whole point is to keep growing and keep evolving and you can’t sit still. You can’t stop helping, stop serving, you know, stop being kind. You have to continue doing all those things, or your entropy will just naturally begin to grow.

Guy:
Tom, I just wanna say thank you and thank you for your. Taking the time and coming on the podcast again today. Um, it’s deeply appreciated and I really, you know, everything that you’ve been such a part of my journey off and on over the years, and I know you don’t really know that, but I, yeah, it’s, it’s really appreciated that everything you’ve done and I’m someone that you’ve affected, that’s for sure, for the positive

Thomas:
very welcome. I, I enjoyed it. You know, an hour is a very small piece of time, and this, the subject is, you know, this big, that deep, and it takes a long time. You know, we just covered a tiny little slice of it in this, in this hour. There’s a whole lot that was not said,

Guy:
of course.

Thomas:
but, uh, you know, it’s all, it’s all on my website. It’s all in the YouTube videos I have, uh. I keep making new YouTube videos every week. So it’s, there’s a, there’s a lot to look at. And two things I tell your readers is, well, three things. One, if, if you’re intimidated by what, uh, 2000 hours worth of video to look through, that’s pretty intimidating. Well, there’s a search engine that you can search it by subject and it’ll tell you just where to click to get information about a subject. That’s one thing. Second thing is that if you want to talk to me, I have an AI called AI guy that’s a character in my book and AI guy, uh, well, is is about a 98% me talks in my voice, been trained on everything I’ve ever said and is amazing. And we’ve tested it many times and it’s close to being a perfect representation of me.

So you can talk to that AI guy and it’s just about like talking to me. The third thing is that if you’re interested in say, the paranormal, you know, mind to mind, connections, out of body healing, you know, all of those things, remote viewing. I have a, a set of a program that you can get on my website that will teach you how all those paranormal things work, why they work the way they do, and how to do them. And then it’ll send you off with a, with a binal beat that comes with it for you to practice. And then you come back and then we talk about the experience you’ve had. Then we send you off again. And I talk more about how, you know, so over five days I go through five different paranormal things and teach you each one and how they work and, and give you ways and guidance and experiencing it.

So it’s a reason I did that is because I tell everybody that if it’s not your experience, it can’t be your truth. So I would say, you know, don’t believe anything I tell you. Believing is the problem. You need to experience it yourself. And when it’s your own experience, then it’ll be yours. But until then, it’s just somebody else’s experience and you should be skeptical of all of it, every bit of it. You need to be skeptical until you experience it yourself. So if you are really interested, then you have to go experience it yourself. And that’s one way you can get started is with that, that program will teach you how to experience personally, all these paranormal

Guy:
the program called?

Thomas:
It’s called, um, exploring the larger consciousness system and everything paranormal. And you’ll, you’ll find it’s an audio program and it’s a five day program, but you can do it over five months if you want to. It was meant to be a five day program and I think we cover five different paranormal things to do one each day. And then you listen the bin beat you practice what I’ve told you, and you come back and we talk about it. I’ve done about 18, or I’ve done about, really about 20 some of these things, you know, events. There are five day events where people come and we talk. It’s brick and mortar kind of thing, not online. And, uh, the MBT events folks have taken all of those and chosen the best, the best questions, the best answers, you know, and all of that.

And they’ve put them all together to where it’s one five day program with the best of 20 different programs put into it. So that’s what it is. So you can take it in five days, it’s more intensive and you’ll probably learn a little more. Or you can take it in five years if you want to, you know, you can just go at your own pace and you can repeat it as often as you like. Once you, once you have it, it’s yours to, you know, it’s yours to, uh, experience forever, so you can do it over and over again. The binaural beats are really good ones. I, I created them myself to. Over years of, of, you know, twiddling with them and, and improving them. So anyway, because a lot of readers will listen to this and they’ll say, wow, that’s way out there. How can I experience that myself and verify it? Well, that’s how you know, you’ve got to experience it. Just learning to think about it is not really a growth path. You have to do it.

Guy:
you have to do it. The the, I’ll make sure that there’s be links in the show notes no matter which platform people are listening on. YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, and uh, your website is it My big toe.com? That’s the

Thomas:
Yeah, it’s my hyphen. My hyphen,

Guy:
big hy.

Thomas:
you know, big hyphen toe.com. I have to put hyphens in there. Somebody else had the, my big toe already,

Guy:
Uh,

Thomas:
the URL, so I had to put hyphens in mine.

Guy:
there’s only one Tom Campbell. I’ll say that much though. That’s for sure. Mate, look, thank you so much, uh, again, much appreciated Tom and

Thomas:
You’re welcome.

Guy:
Thank you.