#129 My awesome guest this week is Patrick Harington, a coach, teacher and the founder of Kindness yoga studios in Colorado.
I first met Patrick on a small retreat in Coast Rica a few years ago. I have huge respect for Patrick, his wisdom and what he brings to the world. We have had some wonderful conversations over the years and wanted to bring one to the podcast for you all today. Enjoy!
– How yoga impacted his life
– Accepting death, we can fully live
– Finding our purpose
– Parenting as a spiritual practice.
About Patrick: About Patrick: Patrick Harrington is living the life of his dreams. For the past 20 years, he has owned and operated with his wife Cameron, kindness yoga in Denver Co. In Addition to teaching he has been coaching private clients for the last decade.
His experience with hundreds of coaching clients and thousands of yoga students has confirmed his belief that yoga, mindfulness, and coaching is the best combination to unlock a life full of meaning and accomplishment.
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Guy: Hi, my name is Guy Lawrence. And thanks for tuning into my podcast today. If you’re enjoying these conversations and you want to check out more of this transformational work, be sure to come back to guylawrence.com.au and join me as we go further down the rabbit hole. Enjoy the show.
Guy: Patrick, welcome to the podcast.
Patrick: Hi, thank you. Welcome yourself. Happy to be here.
Guy: You know, we’ve been, we’ve been having conversation many conversations over the last few years since we’ve got to know each other. And uh, and I thought it’s about time. We actually shared one of those conversations to the rest of the podcast. So I have no shutter be beautiful today. I ask everyone when they jump on the show, if a complete stranger stopped you on the street and asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?
Patrick: I support people and transforming patterns that aren’t working or aren’t working very well into patterns that work a little better.
Guy: Beautiful. And the next question I would ask if I was that stranger properly as well. How do you do that?
Patrick: Uh, it’s good. Um, you know, in, in general, there’s a process that I’ve found over the years that is, helping others and myself to go from mostly living in their heads, to living in a combination of their body, communicating and their head being kind of a good interpreter of the language of the body.
Patrick: And I think so often the answers to patterns that aren’t working as well as I could, or patterns that flat out aren’t working at all lies in listening to your body.
Patrick: And that your body communicates in feelings and sensation and sensation and feelings are different, right? Feelings, emotion, those are really tied together. And then sensation, meaning tight contraction and relief and relaxation, and often this, this sensation piece, I find that we, as people can get caught up in I’m more of a feeling person or I’m more of a thinker, I’m more of an intellect or I’m more of an emotive. And I think that the place where all of those things kind of meet is in the body and the form of tension or relief and that whether you’re an emotive person or if you’re an intellectual person in most of those cases, if you come across a aha moment or a solution, you feel relief emotionally led you there, or intellectually led you there.
Patrick: The body’s sensation of tight or loose is a good indication of am I on the right track?
Guy: Beautiful. Why I speak from my own experience here? So I don’t want to be like blanket state when everyone in the same place, but it was the last place I looked in my life was within myself on the body. You know, and having that communication for such a long time from your experience, is that the case with many people and why do you think that is?
Patrick: Well, I, uh, I think that it’s a lot of people. I think that in our, um, the pace of life for call it city dwellers is, is not the pace of the body. It’s the pace of the mind. And it’s not the pace of nature. It’s the pace to pace of innovation.
Patrick: And when you look at the way that nature innovates innovate in nature, generally innovates, generationally, meaning a pattern that of life, death, life, death, life, death, life, death, life, death, Oh, you have a, you have a slight change in the physical form or in that, in the way that the brain function works or, or coloring or whatever in a species or an animal.
Patrick: But, but relatively speaking, it’s over a long period of time and, um, the life of the cities and the way that we’ve had to innovate by pulling us up kind of out of that equation of the regular pace of evolution we’ve pulled ourselves out of that nominated the natural pace and environment to such a degree that innovation has had to keep going faster and faster and faster and faster and faster to keep us on top of what, in my opinion is kind of a failing model. And so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like, you know, I’m not a bird I’ve just jumped off of a cliff and I’m moving my arms, see just like a bird. And everybody just says, well, just flap harder. And it’s like, well, yeah, but no matter how hard I flap, I’m still not going to break free into flight.
Patrick: This is a model that will not work. If I keep moving this fast. It just, it is just not sustainable. If maintaining equilibrium on the planet is a goal part of the goal. And so I think that we, we get caught here. I get caught here. You get caught here. People get caught here because we’re moving so fast and the body communicates quietly. And, um, in slow moments, in moments where we’ve slowed down. And it’s one of the reasons that yoga has been such a draw for me over the years is that people that do a yoga practice and they’re laying there in corpse pose. And, um, you know, corpse pose is the practice of little death. And so, you know, in that sense, this process of practicing a little death means that, um, you know, it’s those moments pre death that people really review and take a look, how am I, how did I spend my time?
Patrick: How could I have spent my time? And they just, they, there’s a chance to feel in ways that you’re not feeling because you’re going so fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, fast all the time. And so I think in answer to your question around about way, the pace of life for most people, we’re just in this pattern of survive, you know, survive the pace of life. And, um, you’ll reflect on your life after you’ve slowed down and retired. Yeah. And, um, and so I think that, you know, yoga is something that by its very nature, it ends with you laying on your back with your eyes, closed breathing deeply. And for many people, that’s the only time they do that except for when they’re going to sleep.
Guy: Yeah. It’s huge. Isn’t it? I mean, I love the way you broke that down because again, thinking about myself once I started to reconnect that relationship with myself and my body and the slowing down and the listening and becoming more familiar with the sensations and the emotions, it’s now literally the first place I go before I go outside of myself where the old me or the older version of me, that’s always transforming and changing would literally be reaching outside of myself constantly to try and fix what I deemed to fix an internal thing. You know, when I realized that the last backwards, um, time and they’re not slowing down, the joy has started to come out within me without the external need to find the joy to stimulate the joy.
Patrick: Hmm. Wow. Huge. I really just to comment on that, I think, um, that’s a very insightful statement that I don’t want to, to, to have us miss is, you know, you, you might hear meditators or different, um, inspired personalities over the years say that the natural state of human is a state of joy. And, um, and I think that that, that is even hard to contemplate from the perspective of outside in, because as long as we’re looking to be joyful from the outside in, it will be something that is chasing, we are chasing. Okay. And it’s when we shift when one has the opportunity to shift and slow down and recognize that it is in the quiet, the soft, the slow, the pause that joy comes out of me and, um, and our natural state of being is much slower, much softer, much more in pause, much when, when survival isn’t the goal. Um, it just, we realized that we need much less. And I think that’s one of the big benefits and gifts of COVID and the sheltering in place that’s happening in so many places and so many countries. And so many place is, um, you know, hopefully, hopefully getting back to in the same way that I have, you know, spending time with my kids, spending time with my wife on a daily basis, I’m seeing them so much more and it’s joyful,
Guy: beautiful, man. I got to ask you as well. Patrick’s, we’ve probably similar age, right. And you’ve been looking at, you’ve been involved in this work a long time and the depth of your knowledge and experience. Like it’s just, it amazes me every time I speak to I’ve learned, I feel like I’m learning something new. And for me, I was such a late starter to a degree. My thirties, before I even was aware, like I grew up in Wales, it was rugby or veer in rugby, basically, you know, you know,
Patrick: they’re in, in their end is your enlightenment in one way my land.
Patrick: Cause those are beautiful things.
Guy: And I just had no concept. I didn’t even grow up in a religion, nothing. It’s just, it was just so far removed from my paradigm. And I’m just curious for you, like w w where did it start? Did you grow up in this kind of environment or was there a realization or a tipping point for you?
Patrick: Um, you know, I, uh, I had always, um,
Patrick: just been really curious and, um, I, you know, plant medicine has been a part of my life. Um, and you know, for, for many years, cannabis was the, um, the vehicle, uh, that really when I would use plants like plant medicine or, um, mushrooms or Iowasca, um, what I notice is this experience of feeling a part of something that’s bigger than myself. And that, that cannabis is a, um, has in the past, served me in just softening the edges of my perception. So it’s kind of like if I, if I just kind of get a little blurred, I rest more into my sensation state of my body. And, um, and it just caused me to keep looking like, wow, okay, this plant causes me to have different perspectives or unlocks perspectives that I always have that I just don’t access as often. And, um, and creativity comes out in a different way.
Patrick: And I, I rhyme instead of just talking, uh, wow, what, what, what causes me to access that? And, and just really looking at, at the, the way that Mmm, you know, sugar has an effect on me that’s different than, um, you know, when I’m not eating a bunch of sugar, um, plant medicines have an effect on me. That’s different from alcohol, which of course alcohol is sugar. Um, and so there’s, there’s certain, there’s certain kind of like which inebriation States are you chasing that lead to different mental processes and alcohol is emotional and reactive. And so it was rugby, you know, and so are most sports. And so mostly when we get into our bodies, and this goes back to our previous question, and conversation is mostly when we’re getting into our bodies, we’re getting into things that have us be reactive, right? Where you’re boxing, you’re, you’re, you’re playing rugby, you’re playing soccer, you’re playing tennis.
Patrick: You know, it’s all about how quick can I react and move and perform at this high level. And so where competition is the, is at stake, alcohol and sugar is a perfect match in mentality. And I think transformation and curiosity and plant medicine are at a very, um, clear, very clearly connected. And I’ve had both in my life, but I’ve never been as attracted to alcohol as I have been to plants. And, um, and I loved, I love, I played rugby in college by the way, too. So, wow. I love that. I love banging into, to other people and, and, and winning and, and competing and, and all that. So, and putting pubic hairs in that, in the competitor’s beers, I don’t, I don’t know if that, is that, is that, is that a tradition over in Australia? Uh, the, I mean, my rugby was in Wales, but, but there were definitely certain antics that went on after every game. I’ll say that much. That’s for sure. I grew up fast. I, um, it sounds like, you know, there was a, there was always a greater awareness of something. Cause quite often we don’t, I didn’t, I just didn’t have, well,
Guy: didn’t know how to evolve my awareness to start, to, to, to grow the depths of myself, which seems like you were always on the phone, on that lane from an early age. When did you, when did you start to then look at yoga as well?
Patrick: So in, um, I, when I was 20, I went to a yoga class with my mom when I was back visiting from college and it was a beautiful female instructor and she paid attention to me and afterwards I felt great in my body. And I was like, Oh my God. And she was my teacher. Like, I just, I just want to do that again. You know, it was a bunch of Pavlovian responses and, um, and then I went up to, um, the university and, um, you know, I needed to take up. I can’t, I can’t remember. I think maybe it was just part of your pre-recs that you had to take a phys ed course. And, um, I played basketball and rugby and all sorts of, you know, competitive stuff. And somebody told me I should try the yoga for sports performance. And so I went again and again, it was a very attractive female instructor and I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing.
Patrick: And so I really, really kind of fell in love with it there. And, um, and it just helped, um, one of the main things that yoga helped that I was, that was unexpected is, um, proprioception and proprioception is knowing where your body is in space when you can’t see it. And so as an athlete, um, I didn’t really put together how valuable that could be when I’m playing basketball or, or rugby or whatever, to know where to be more intimately aware of where my body is in space when I can’t see it. And both of my game, my basketball game and rugby game just went to another level from it. So I was hooked.
Guy: Yeah. Got it. And what I’m fascinated as well, Patrick, is that, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re living a life on purpose, you know, you’re, you’re very aligned with the heart and your mind and your body and your soul, and you’re making a difference in the world. Did you at that, in those twenties, from yoga? Cause I see that a lot with people trying to find this transition, they might be, have a corporate job or they might be doing something and as they lean into this work, there’s a pick a part of themselves that wants to come through that could be completely different to the career they’re on or what they’re doing and want to create a transition themselves for you. Did you have to make that transition or were you always kind of just leaning in from your curiosity? So you’re always on kind of purpose to today.
Patrick: It’s a great question. I think, um, for me, I’ve always, um, until, until I found yoga and considered it as a, uh, to be, to be a teacher, um, I had had if, if then jobs, which would be, I consider an F then job, meaning if I got no vacation, what I still want to do this job. And, and if not, then chances are, it’s an if then job, it’s like, if this job makes me money, then I’ll be able to do what I want with my time. And so I’d, I’d always been an entrepreneur and started many different companies, probably 25 over my life. And my main ones have been what, none of them I’ve worked except for the one that was the end in itself, right there. The one that wasn’t an then job is the only one that I’ve had over the last 20 years.
Patrick: And that’s been yoga studio owner and yoga teacher. And because they’re totally complete money was never the point. And so it always gave me all the money that I needed. Hmm. Has it made me writ whatever rich is like, like, I, I don’t have a ton of disposable income, but I, I haven’t needed it. It’s that idea that the, that the innate state of human being is joy when doing something, when you’re toiling for something that is, uh, of who you are, and joy is not the case. If you’re doing something that isn’t who you are. And, and, and so I had always had, if then jobs that were like, I’ll make a lot of money doing this, and then I’m going to do great stuff for the world, for myself. I’m going to, you know, I’m going to eat healthy, then, you know, I’m gonna, I’m going to prioritize these things, then all these, if then type of tasks.
Patrick: And, um, I did yoga. And so I introduced my ex wife, um, to yoga and she’s a Parisian and she started practicing seven, eight times a week. And, um, she came home one day and she’s like, I know what I want to do. I want to be a yoga teacher. And I was like, that’s great. That’s awesome. And she said that the teacher training is nine weeks long. And I said, that’s amazing. And this is paraphrasing. But I said, essentially, we were having a hard time. I said, please use this time to connect with yourself and decide if you really want to stay married. And, um, and she said, I will. And so she went to the training and she came back and we were sitting in a park and she was explaining to me all of the things that she got out of, it’s incredible, you know, transformation that she went through.
Patrick: And she said, and I realized that I don’t want to be married anymore. And I said, I said, Oh, I love, I love you so much. I love you enough for, for you to leave if that’s what’s best. And, um, and I said, and I want everything that you got. And I, I literally sold my business in 30 days, sign the, got on a plane and took the training that she just took like a month and a half later. Wow. And, um, I knew at that moment that that was, that was not an if then career path, that was a now type of job. It it’s complete. Yeah.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. What would you say to someone well, to listeners listening to this, and I know it’s hard to be specific, but if they’re in an instant job, like from all your experience of moving from finding this purpose, like you say, and being in this state of joy more often, what would you say to someone that’s feeling Starrco lacking purpose or just wishing them Monday to Friday away?
Patrick: Cause it’s common. It is common. Yeah. And I think that, um, I think the word I wanna, I want to unpack the word purpose because, um, where, where I, where I come from now is that, um, you know, everything is practice for one day when we leave the body. And that every relationship is a death practice every morning that we wake up and we do what we do. And we lay down to go to bed is a death practice. Um, COVID is a death practice, right? There’s so many things that we used to take for granted that died for a period of time. And some of them will resurrect, but other things may not, right. We may not have not. And this of course is unique each person, but not everybody is going to go back to a culture of hugging everyone. They see, they’re just not going to do it based on all the things like, do they want me to hug them?
Patrick: Do I want to hug them? I dunno, I like hugging, but how do they feel? Right. So there’s a death there. There’s literally as a pattern death. And so given that that death is something that will happen for everyone. And it’s kind of a big deal. It’s kind of like the deal, right? Like there’s birth and then there’s there’s death. And then there’s the time in between. And purpose has always been sold. And in particular, even going back to this idea of becoming a yoga studio, the idea of purpose, wasn’t part of it. What was part of it was I feel better when I’m doing this.
Patrick: So I’m going to follow that. Hmm. And that, and that this idea of living a life without regrets is a life that one day you will die wow. From, because if you are doing you, if you are doing something that is, you you’ll die well, every day is a good day to die. If you’re doing you, if being who you’re, if you’re being as close to who you think you need or should, or want to be, you could die. You could die without regrets. That that’s, that’s my projection. Right. Um, and so the way that I look at purpose today is that it’s a, it’s a, it’s a short phrase that kind of encompasses it, encompasses it. And it’s your purpose is your next natural stress relieving thought word or action now. And what that does is it takes this idea. That purpose is this thing that’s like for the next 50 years, I’ve found it.
Patrick: You know, especially in this time where things are changing so fast, right? 12 weeks ago, we couldn’t have imagined being on lockdown. That’s how quickly something can change today, globally, not just in a single place like you could, you could in the past say they’re closing Sydney because of this thing. But now all of a sudden it’s like the whole globe shutdown in like weeks, it all occurred. So big shifts can happen really quick. So the idea of planning for the next five years, the next year, the next 10 years, like those are very hard things to do. So to me, my purpose is often as I can remember, it is what would feel natural. And that’s everybody’s interpretation. Stress-relieving because I believe that stress relief is a sign that we’re headed towards health. If stress is unhealthy, not all stress, right. Obviously, right. There’s stress in our body, just standing here.
Patrick: Like I lift my arms and I feel stressed muscularly and the tension and so forth. So that’s positive. But the idea that we hold onto stress and we don’t let it go, that causes dis ease and ultimately sickness. And so natural stress-relieving thought because that’s the base level of manifestation thinking more in alignment. If I find myself beating myself up, I notice that that is stress inducing. Okay. I must have to think differently about myself. Okay. Well, you’re not so bad. That’s a little bit less stress, you know, you’re, you’re pretty, all right. You’re pretty good. Okay. Less stress. I like you, Patrick. I’m really starting to open up. I love you, Patrick. Boy, I feel open. I feel receptive word. That’s the next level of manifestation. And so now, you know, mirror work is something that I do a lot of. I say, I love, I say, I love you Patrick, to my own eyes in the mirror.
Patrick: when I remember too, it’s not every day, but it’s more and more often. I say, I love you. I love you Patrick. Or I love you, man, if I’m a little shy, but I love you, bro. Um, but you know, whatever it takes to kind of get over this sillies about it. But like I do and more and more I’m unconditionally loving Patrick and then action. Right? That’s, that’s manifesting in the world. And that, those are the things that we do. So for most people that are sitting in wherever they’re sitting, they know that there is a next natural stress relieving thought they could have, like, it’s not so bad. Right. It’s not necessarily like I’m going to go and quit tomorrow. It could be like, it’s not so bad, but it’s not the best thing for me. Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That’s a next step, you know?
Patrick: Okay. Gosh, I’m curious. What, what skills do I have that I could offer somewhere else? I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. I can. Gosh, what do I love to do out of those things that are my skills. I really love this. Gosh. Okay. I’m curious. What other jobs out there do that. Okay. Well, you know, and you just start to walk towards a more relieving state of being, and that’s your purpose and it will, it will be like breadcrumbs leading you somewhere and it’s not, you don’t just like find the loaf and then you’re like, I’m on arm and you eat all the bread, right. You just are constantly following breadcrumbs home, right. To your heart, right. To who you are, because right in here, there’s really nothing that you have to do.
Patrick: Right. There’s no who’s telling guy to do something guy. He’s the only one telling guy to do anything. He’s the only one that says guy get out of bed. He’s the only one that says, guys, it’s time to eat healthy or guy we’re going to have another pint or whatever. Totally. Yeah. And so, you know, that, that this whole idea that there’s some external expectation and patterning and parental imprinting and all of that stuff, it’s still our voice telling us what to do next. And so we just start to train that voice to say the next slightly relieving thing to ourselves is your purpose. It’s not like it’s not in that job. It’s not in that career. It’s not in that industry maybe, but first likely in here and in here, and just starting to feel your own agency around, I can generate relief with my thoughts, words and my actions. I can generate that. I have agency.
Patrick: Yeah. Love it. Um, what rings true? Um, well I get from that and from my own things, a couple of things that spring to mind was I remember somebody always saying to me, um, the true act of meditation is what you do with your eyes opens for your day.
Patrick: Yeah. And a lot of that is then coming back to, like you say, bring yourself, be mindful, be more present to the moment and being aware. And, and from that place, you start to see things differently. As you aspire to whatever direction you want to take yourself in leading with your heart. If you don’t allow that joy in the moment, I think we’re always going to struggle with, it’s like a dangling carrot that we can never quite catch. And we’re always chasing something
Guy: well said. Definitely. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. I would just want to comment on something that, that, um, that occurred while you were, while you were sharing that to me, is that, you know, one of the things that’s really interesting about this time right now is how understandable it would be if someone would totally turn their life upside down. Well, yeah. During COVID I changed everything. Oh, you did? Oh yeah. No, that makes sense. Yeah. What’d you choose? Well, I went to totally different direction. I went over here and so for people listening and for us right now, you have a green, you have a magic ticket that says all of the places you’ve been feeling obligated and should it, and all the ways that you, you know, all those expectations and all that sunk cost, you’ve already put all this money into an education. Now, what are you going to do?
Patrick: It it’s like you could right now more than almost any time in history, say boy, cool. That happened. And I just questioned everything turns out. I don’t want to be a lawyer anymore. And you get a free, there’s not a person on the planet that would go like you dumb ass, why’d you quit. They’d be like, I get it, man. Everything was thrown up in the air. What are you going to do now? So we’re at a very unique time to be having this conversation because there is a green light to give up anything that isn’t working. Hm. You can make decisions today and be met with more compassion. And like-mindedness I think maybe than any other time.
Patrick: Yeah. Why I, again, think it’s just to touch on what you spoke on that indecision as being one of the biggest
Patrick: cripples for me in the past, where I end up just being paralyzed or fearful then to move in, into the true self. If you like, that’s something to come through from your own experience, why do you think we ended up, like, from this paralysis from analysis, we just, um, excess calories. We, we, we’ve never been a species that has had it this easy. And so it’s, it’s, we’re not, not, you’re just not uncomfortable enough. And, and so you get to be indecisive, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, when does an addict make a change when his head actually hits the gutter, not when his head is falling towards the gutter and a pillow gets slid underneath it. Bye. You know, and, and, um, everybody’s story is the same, but, but like by social services or by a family member, again, it’s like when we actually, bam, we make a choice and, you know, comfort is the enemy of, um, you know, in his greatness almost, you know, I, I don’t know if that’s exactly true, but it kind of feels like it could be pointing in that direction where it’s like, you know, you’re not uncomfortable enough about the injustice injustice to make a different choice.
Patrick: You’re not, you’re not uncomfortable enough with the state of your health to stop watching TV and go take a walk. You know, you’re not uncomfortable with fill in the blank enough to dot, dot dot. And, you know, it’s, it’s kind of like that situation where it’s like, use your freaking imagination and get more uncomfortable because humans are, are fabulous at learning. That’s fabulous. We learn a lot from pain and we make adjustments from, um, pain. And, uh, and so I think that like, why do people stay in careers? That for, for a really long time that they really don’t like, because it hasn’t killed them, has it killed him yet? And they’re, they’re indecisive about leaving because it’s not, it’s not, it’s not, it’s not, uh, putting at risk their, their life. And if it were they’d leave, like if they said, I’m going to kill ya. If you don’t quit your job, you’ll be like, thank God I quit. But you know, we’re, we’re, sir, we’re surviving enough that we, um, sit in our own filth, you know, our own, our own crappy decisions. It’s like, it’s like the frog analogy in the sauce pan of water, isn’t it? You know? And it’s just slowly. Yeah. There’s one. Yeah. There’s one that just takes me back to even my time. Cause I spent a five year period, maybe even longer where I was very uncomfortable
Patrick: and uh, and you know, what crystallized out of that was incredible. It really allowed me to grow in ways. I’d never knew that was even within me. And I’m so grateful when I look back upon those times now, because it kind of helped me move into the direction. I’m bringing me closer to my heart, you know, it’s just sometimes yeah. I was going to say, do you find yourself like, um, representing the pain from that time to motivate you out of indecision now? Or is that, is that, do you relate that, you know, a hundred, it gives me context. It gives me huge context to what’s going on now and a much deeper appreciation of the simple things that are in my life right now that I can hold in my heart more on a daily basis where I just, they would have just shot straight past me back then.
Guy: You know? So from that, I think that’s been the biggest thing, but, you know, interestingly, there was an element of, it makes me smile as well, because I remember I was in this period when I had to cycle, um, probably about 12 Ks every single day, over these Hills and into work 30 minutes each day, five, six days a week, I did not have hardly any money cause I was investing into the stock trade in which I got horribly wrong and there was all these things going on. And I remember it was willing to accept the moments where I’d been as a fitness trainer. You know, my body ached, I had to get up at 5:00 AM. It would be raining sideways and there was no option. I just had to get on this bike and cycling over the Hills and pain and wet. And, and I learned to really love it.
Patrick: I would end up like soaking up these raw, real moments that didn’t require money. And, and then I would see the people on the buses that looked so miserable, commute into work. And I just, my whole perception changed. And it allowed me to find joy in my struggles where I was at. It was honestly, it was an incredible time of my life and that I carry with me to this day, you know, that reference point for sure. Yeah, love it. I want to touch on one other topic. Um, before we wrap up the show, Patrick, and it’s very relevant to me as well about with Linda being eight and a half, eight and a half months pregnant as, um, we do this podcast, but that’s parenting and, uh, you noted before it being a spiritual practice because what are we finding with my own company? And what we’re doing is the first obstacle is their kids or they say, Oh, I’ve got kids. I just don’t find the time to do this or that or whatever. And it’s a distraction. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you. Well, I mean, what an honor to, to be, be, uh, stewarding in, uh, a new, uh, being, you know, what, what an incredible, and if we just
Patrick: really kind of stepped back in the, and pull ourselves away from what we think is important, and we actually look at the significance of you having been born, all the people that guy has touched and talk to and hurt and helped and loved and hated, and just it’s just across the board, everything that you have brought and taken from the world by being embodied, you get how significant the job is, right? You get how significant the opportunity is to be a dad, to be a partner. And so much of what I think of as parenting is the same thing, which is the process or that the opportunity, which is a relationship. And so there’s, there’s there, there certainly is a difference being a dad from being a husband. Um, and there’s a lot of it that feels really the same and the same meaning from, um, my, my perspective of you is that you are a masculine essence being who is born in a male body gender wise, but you have a more masculine essence than feminine essence, but you definitely have feminine essence that just like me and, and just like Landa has masculine essence.
Patrick: But mostly as I know her to be a feminine essence who identifies as a female. And, um, and so there’s some, there’s some archetypical pieces that really make it less personal. And one of the things about parenting is that it can become really personal. Like this morning I walked upstairs and um, my eight year old daughter had gotten up and her and I were the only ones up in the house and it was early and, but I’d heard she’d gotten up. And then I heard her go back to her bedroom and I just kind of walked up there and I walked in and she’s sitting on her, on her bed with her, with her book reading. And she, she does not acknowledge me when I walk in the room and I walk right up and I lean against her bed and she doesn’t acknowledge me.
Patrick: He doesn’t look up, it doesn’t say anything. It’s just staring at her book and I’m watching Patrick go that little shit. When somebody walks in the room, what you’re supposed to do is acknowledge them. That’s what a good person does. They acknowledge them. And then what’s more, if it’s your father, you say morning Papa, and you give them a hug because that’s what I want. That’s what I need. That’s what makes me feel good, nothing. So then I touch her knee and all of this is going on inside of me. And I’m not, you know, I’m not showing it physically for sure. If something’s being felt and chain and transferred there, I touch her knee and I just kind of rub it a second and just zero doesn’t even blink, no facial, nothing. And I just like, okay, well fine. She wants to be that way.
Patrick: I’m just gonna, I’ll just leave. I’ll just take my energy away. And that’ll teach her. She’ll soon, become downstairs and giving me a hug because I took my energy away. And so I’m down there making my coffee. She’s not coming down, she’s not coming down. She doesn’t come down. And, and I’m just watching this happen on the inside. And I’m saying to myself, this is really personal to me. This is not her stuff. This is my stuff. And I could transfer my stuff to her and snatch the book out of her hand. So you better pay attention to me because that’s what I need. But actually it’s really great that she’s reading. It’s really great that in her own way, she set a boundary. Okay. I want her to be able to set a boundary and she focused her attention. And she knew that I was standing there staring at her and she knows what that can me and what I’m asking.
Patrick: And she still held a line. So on one hand that could really be celebrated. But if I am in my reaction that this is personal, I’m trying to make her more like what I need. And so pull that back and insert Cameron, my wife and me. And there are 10,000 instances where I needed her to act a certain way so that I could feel a certain way. And at the beginning of the podcast, we talked about feeling joy from outside in versus feeling joy from inside out. And so if I’m looking for my child or my wife to cause something in me that I’m not bringing to the table as a self generator, not wrong, not right. It’s just something to be aware of. And so the analogy that I see as, as a masculine essence, being my job, I make it in my job I projected onto Patrick is I’m going to hold a space for things to happen.
Patrick: Upsets emotionality is challenges, victories, defeats. All the things. Sadness is happiness is of our family dynamic. And I’m going to meet that as compassionately and lovingly as I can. And sometimes love means, um, I’m going to give you a SWAT on the bottom, which I’ve done maybe five times in eight years with my oldest daughter. And because it’s gotten to a place to where you’re you testing the boundaries of this container that I’ve created for us is starting to crack. It feels like I’m starting to lose it a little bit. And so I establish a different kind of boundary, which in that case of the five swats over eight years is undermined you. That I’m the bigger entity in this relationship and that’s has served to what Oh, right, right. You’re the dad, I’m the kid you’re bigger where you say preset rules is a boundary that I’m, that I get to choose to respect or not.
Patrick: And that there are consequences. And so I think that, you know, um, from a spiritual perspective, what that is, is watching the dynamic of the family and myself as part of that from a third party perspective and say, I want Patrick to have his emotions. I want Patrick to get angry. If he gets angry, I want him to get frustrated because I want to get happy. And, and I want him to continue to hold the container in which all of this happens in a loving way. And that’s the spiritual practice, because it can be so easy to throw myself into like this morning forcing app Briella. Cause I can, because I’m the bigger person, cause I’ve been here longer. Cause I know how you’re supposed to act. And um, certainly that’s my job. And sometimes I love just watching. Wow, I’m freaking out right now, a little bit in here and I’m just going to walk away and let her have her experience.
Guy: And um, yeah, just, just, just be a space holder as a parent. And uh, boy, you know, it just, it just makes such a difference in the last, the last analogy I’ll leave with you is that, um, I’ve found that children are, um, state dependent learners. So what I mean by that is, is that when dad is around, it’s a certain state of being of mind awareness and around dad, both kids were allowed to hit their head if, if they were walking head down and they ran into the corner of the table, I wouldn’t ness. I mean, if there were, if they were running, it would be one thing. But if they’re walking and I could, I could put my hand out or not. I would not put my hand out and let them hit their head. And very soon from like two years old, one and a half years old, they stopped hitting their head around me.
Patrick: Now my mom, their grandmother would never let them hit their head around her. And so much later I would watch them. We’d be over at their house. And I kind of be watching from the side and they would be interacting and they kept hitting their head around grandma later into years than around me, because pain teaches and around grandma, they didn’t have, they didn’t have to have the agency to care for themselves, but they did around dad and Cameron was in the middle. And so this idea is that we, we raised our first child with a commitment that we would raise her like a second child, meaning we were over the glass kid, you know, fear like it’s gonna, she’s gonna break. It was like, no, no, you you’re, you’re gonna, you’re gonna learn by falling and I’m going to stop you if you run towards the street. Okay. Like I am my daughter’s keeper, but you get to hit your head around me and you’ll become responsible for that.
Guy: Yeah. It’s like, um, you, you, you teach them how to choose for themselves of responsibility for themselves and go from that place, which is such an empowering place. Right. Cause they’re there. It’s amazing. Yeah. I, um, I look forward to, I look forward to it all. I really do. It’s going to be,
Guy: we have such an amazing partner. Um, you guys together make such a dynamic powerful pair. Um,
Guy: just so, so cool. Yeah. Thank you. We’re very excited and I feel very blessed. I really do. I, um, Patrick, just to wrap up the show, I ask everyone a question and literally that is with everything we’ve covered today. Is there anything you’d like to leave the listeners to ponder on?
Patrick: Where do you know that you will experience relief
Patrick: from letting go
Patrick: that you’re still holding on?
Guy: Hmm, beautiful, beautiful.
Patrick: Complete. And please play with letting go. Yeah.
Guy: Yeah. Surrender for it’s a good one.
Patrick: Oh, it’s death, right? You’re going to surrender one day when you leave the body, there’ll be a moment when you don’t have a choice about it and how you practice surrender today will inform how much you suffer when you don’t have a choice.
Guy: Yeah, totally. Totally. I hear you, mate. Um, if anyone wants to learn more about what you do, Patrick, where can I send them? What’s the best place to go?
Patrick: Thank you. Yeah. kindnesscollective.com is our yoga studios. And then we have a coaching called kindness Academy. And so we do live virtual coaching every week with a group of anywhere from 60 to 90 people and do breakout sessions and go into various topics on a weekly basis. And so that’s super fun. And then we have online virtual yoga, yoga classes from our studios that are available as well to stream.
Guy: Amazing. Patrick, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate your time, your wisdom and everything you do. And uh, yeah. I have no doubt. Thanks buddy.
Patrick: Yeah. Thank you. High five.