#164 This week I have the pleasure of having a mind-blowing conversation with Matt Omo. Matt is a leader of the sound healing movement in Australia and works with sound vibration meditation to help people rediscover who they are and create more harmony and wellbeing in their life.
During this episode, we discuss the healing effects of sound in depth. We go over Matt’s journey with sound and the tangible effects that working with sound has had on him. Ultimately, we cover the subject of resistance towards spirituality and how we can circumvent the fear of being judged by society.
If you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: Find Your Edge & True Potential Using Sound | Matt Omo
About Matt: Matt Omo is a leader of the sound healing movement in Australia with over 15 years of experience working with a variety of sound healing techniques bridging cultures and traditions from around the world. The work and awareness around sound healing and its benefits are growing every day. Matt is developing new programs and products to meet this need and continue to support people in discovering the benefits of the healing power of sound.
Key points with time stamp:
- The Remarkable Healing Properties of Sound (00:00)
- Matt’s work in his own words (00:57)
- The reception of Matt’s work (01:38)
- The lack of general knowledge about inner work and spirituality (02:31)
- Getting over limiting conditioning and discovering the therapeutic effects of the voice (06:54)
- How does sound recondition a body that is out of alignment? (18:06)
- How has sound tangibly helped Matt heal over the years? (31:33)
- Why do men feel a resistance towards meditation? (39:26)
- How can sound help support your journey? (44:34)
- Still on the fence about the effect of sound? (54:18)
- What Matt leaves us with (55:13)
Mentioned in this episode:
- Bruce Lipton
- Max Planck
- Particle Fever, a documentary on Netflix
- The Hadron Collider
- The God Particle
- The Higgs Field
- Wayne Dyer
- The Richter Scale
Matt, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you, Guy. Good to be here.
We were I just realized this is about the the ninth episode of you coming back onto the show, which is incredible. I think, I don’t know, nine or 10 here, right?
I’m a bit of a guy Lawrence podcast horror then
yeah, superstar made. But no, I’m so grateful to bring you back on the show. And obviously, the podcast has been in quite a long transition of different people, different guests, different listeners. And I really wanted to bring you on so I could explore your journey, explore this sound and, and help people understand how transformative this work is, and and the gifts that you bring to the world. So I hope you’re ready for some questions, mate.
Yeah, this spring of hanging out with you. I get questions all the time. I always throw that first question in my life anyway. So I’m been well versed over the last couple of years.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, anyway, mate. As I always ask everyone, and I want to start the show today like this. And if you were at an intimate dinner party, and you sat next to a complete stranger, and they asked you what you were up to what you’re doing for a living? How would you respond?
Yeah, straight out the gate. I should have been prepared for this one. Hey, I’ve been listening to your podcast long enough. I would say that I work with sound vibration meditation to help people rediscover who they are and create more harmony and wellbeing in their life.
Yeah, wow, you got that nailed? What would be their response? Normally,
I get it. Some people would be curious and then ask a bit deeper. And other people would probably be just like, What a weirdo? What, what’s this guy on about? Especially if I’ve got my gang over my shoulder or my didgeridoo in hand? They’re like, Oh, here we go. quacky wacky, dude. So yeah, so I’d probably go, if they’re asking into a bit more depth on that, and pull it apart, which is, you know, sound is something that I’ve been really passionate about, because it’s something that has allowed me to alleviate my anxieties, my stresses and in some of the issues in my life to, to kind of, you know, relax and create more harmony and more peace. And it’s my go to when when things are getting stressful to to rebalance to find that inner peace. So yeah, if they’re, if they’re curious, I’d probably go deeper into it.
Totally, it’s interesting, I was even thinking about it off this morning to myself about this conversation. And, and I’ve had the blessing of having no idea about this work like zero for for quite a large part of my life. And, and now, especially now, I’ve been working alongside you for for a few years as well, but obviously, experience in your work before that it’s become a very normal thing for me, like, like, it’s as normal as anything that I do. But I forget that the old guy, you know, 10 years ago looking in, what about a very different mindset around this? And that’s what I’m really keen to, to look into today. And I got to remind myself for that, because I’m now I’m so biased, if you like, with your work, because I’m like, why doesn’t everyone know about this? Why isn’t everyone getting into this? What? What are you all doing? Come on, guys, let’s,
uh, hi. All right, that’s the question I’ve been asking myself for years. It’s just banging my head against the wall. Oh, why? Why don’t people do this? Why don’t they see the value in this, you know, it based on what we’ve experienced through the retreats and what I’ve experienced over the years through the work, it’s, and seeing people come in and have these experiences, you know, it’s a roomful of people, and they, a lot of them are like you, they don’t have an idea of why they’re there, what this is going to do, or the idea is way skewed from what it actually is. And then they come out the other end, and they’re, like, bright eyed, like deer in headlights, like, Oh my god, like, That’s incredible. And, and they have these huge epiphanies and insights and resolutions and clarity to their, their problems and challenges. And, and it literally changes them in in positive ways. And, and they come out and like, Oh, wow. And, you know, then to go out of that room of people that have then been, you know, they drank the Kool Aid, they’ve, they’ve had the experience, they know what it’s about, to then trying to get another group of people into that room, and it’s like, oh, yeah, maybe I’ll do that. Maybe I won’t, it’s not a big deal. And, and like you say, to be in a practice where we’re doing it over and over again, then you see the incremental changes that are happening, and how it impacts our lives. It’s like, Why Why don’t we do this as much, you know, like, I just did this before I come on this morning is to be honest, I didn’t brush my teeth, but I I told I brushed energy said, you know, it went through with sound like that’s more important to me than brushing my frickin teeth. Because I know how that impacts my day. And then everything just opens up and flows more smoothly. And to me, it’s like, why isn’t everyone else doing this, they’re so busy, you know, how’s my hair, where’s my makeup, this and that. And then they go into their day, they’re stressed, they’re not in, in an optimal condition within themselves to meet the world and their relationships. And they come out the end of the day, and they’re falling down having a sip of wine and like trying to unwind from this stress response in this chaotic environment that they’ve co created with everybody. But yet, if they just took five minutes to stop, and use sound, the sound of their voice, it doesn’t even have to be like, you know, these instruments that I work with, I mean, we can get into that, if you want to, and how that works. But it’s just a simple, elongated tone of our voice, creates a harmony and a well being and stimulates not only a meditative state of relaxation, that Oh yeah, it’s nice if I could be relaxed, but I got so many things to do in my life, like, but it also is creating, like a stew of biochemistry that elicits creative thinking and, and more efficient modes of being in the world as well as in the neurology gets balanced, which actually, you know, as you talked about is the basis of everything is our nervous system, is how we perceive the world and meet the world and make the choices and take the actions that we do in our lives. That gets impacted to work more effectively and efficiently. And the physical body as well. So you’re working mental, emotional, physical aspects of yourself, and creating a harmony in those things that is invaluable. Like, I, I feel like I’m on the backfoot if I don’t stop in the morning, and have that five to 20 minutes of just
Tony totally, but it’s get it’s been able to get out about our almost our guilt, egoic mind and the beliefs things that we have around that because I know, even doing an arm for me 10 years ago, I kind of felt really weird or making sounds, it wasn’t actually until I became a fitness trainer. And when I was working with large groups of people, that I was actually having to project my voice. And that’s when I really started to understand how therapeutic the voice was on clearing wise and I would always come out a very different person to the one that went in to lead the groups because I was having to learn to to come from the belly project loud and and i would end up making funny wacky noises because I was getting myself into such a frenzy of excitement, some weird stuff would come out of me, but in a fun playful manner with everyone. And I’d always get a laugh from the group. But it was hugely therapeutic. And I think having that opportunity started to break down the walls for me, of my left brain linear. I don’t want to be seen or heard or look stupid in any shape or manner. You know?
Yeah, absolutely. So it’s a big hurdle.
It’s huge. It’s huge. And I’m debating which direction to go in who and and, yes, like we’re at a fork in the road of the podcast already. Wow. So much responsibility. Which direction do I go for the listeners? And ourselves?
Yeah, well, yeah, I think like we said, like, at the beginning, and how, like, for me, I’d like to get it in a pie. I like to be able to present enough information that people get it and then actually want to give it a go, you know? Yeah. Cuz that’s the bottom line is overcoming that conditioned idea of, well, the idea, I think it’s, you know, what, what is this sound? And how does it How can it heal me? Because, you know, in our Western mind, we think that sound is, are we just, it’s just in our culture as as entertainment, you know, it’s like, oh, let’s go listen to this band, or let’s, you know, Let’s relax to these meditative sounds. And, you know, it can go from either an excitement or a relaxed state, but we don’t actually then correlate the fact that, why is that doing that, to us in that, within that is the basis of healing. And, you know, it’s just something fun in novel to do. And so that’s where I think the mindset needs to shift, we need to start to open into will, yeah, we all can relate to the fact that we’ve heard a song or going to a concert or something, or danced in a way that is, it feels good, you know, and it makes us feel happy and joyous and connected. And, you know, so that we can all agree with that. Whether we’re we’re scared to use our voice or not. And then the other thing is we also know like, from from day dot, you know, where we’re soothed by our mother’s voice. I mean, it’s One of the first senses to develop is our ears in utero. And so they, you know, there’s studies that show that the baby, the fetus is already listening to the vibrations from outside. And they actually hear it in an amplified way, because you’re in the embryonic fluid, which is a more condensed space, then the air that we sit in, in real life. And so, sound is able to travel through the body at a much faster and clearer rate than through the air. And so when you’re in utero in, in the mother’s womb, it’s like, you’re actually in an amplified container of sound and vibration. And so, you know, that’s why we sing to our children, we, then as soon as, and the mother’s voice sooths as soon as the baby and so we’ve, we’ve, that’s innately in us. And so from those two ends of the spectrum, it’s like, well, how, why wouldn’t we want to explore why how that happens? And in what is contained in that, and that’s what’s really fascinated me is, is how, how does that happen? And I, you know, I’ve got, there’s various storylines as to why I went that direction in my life, but at the basis of it, it then put me on this journey to explore this and really start to pull it apart. And the beauty of it is that, you know, synchronistically, being born in, in, in this life at this time, science is meeting the, the spiritual. And so a lot of what the ancients and mystics have, have talked about for millennia, which actually got sideswiped, because of science, it’s, it’s interesting is that, you know, we came into that industrial age in the mechanical age, and like, everything was machine, and we looked at the body as a machine. And then separate components. And like, this is where modern medicine developed was out of that mindset. So all the philosophers like, you know, Socrates, and, and Plato and like all these cats, that were just not having the instruments and the technology to actually look at the body in its mechanical structure, we’re looking at it from a holistic point of view, and a more of a mystical point of view, which allowed for different philosophies and theories that then totally got discredited because the science wasn’t there to support it. And we just fractured it and broke it down into bits and parts. And now you look at Western medicine and how it works, it’s completely it’s, well, they’re starting to come back together, but they were divorced from the eastern philosophies, and these, you know, acupuncture, and our VEDA, and, like different mantras and different medicines and yoga and stuff, like, these are medicines that were in, in healing modalities that were utilized for centuries, before Western medicine came in. And the models stem from different vantage points. And so the beauty is, is that now we’ve we’ve taken this body, and this and looked at it at a machine to its exhaustion pretty much in realizing that actually, it’s not working Western medicine and the healing of one part of it at a time doesn’t allow for the totality of what we are. And in essence, what the mystics in those ancient healing modalities would see if that were a harmony of a symphony of sound and vibration, working in, in unity and harmony together, that creates wellness and, and health within us. And you can’t just take your heart and say, okay, fix that heart, and then the whole body’s gonna follow. It’s that, why is that hard out of balance, and it’s, you know, like 20 different things that are causing that imbalance that then result in the heart issue or the brain issue. And I’ve just been listening to another auto audible book about sound and medicine. It’s a woman who’s I forget her name, but she’s, you know, she’s got the history, she’s got the study, she’s she studied our Vedic medicine and Western medicine. And she’s one of those people that are bridging these worlds and, and starting to put the biochemistry in with the philosophy and the mantras and this and that, and it’s it’s really fascinating to listen to her talk. And this idea that, you know, there’s two main components in sound healing, that that are happening in that we’ve got resonant. And we’ve got entrainment. And so these are two concepts that once you start to understand these things, then you start to open a sense of exploration and curiosity. So resonance is, is basically, if you’ve got two objects, so like a tuning fork, for example, that are the same frequency, and you strike one of the tuning forks and you put the other tuning fork next to it, then that fork to will vibrate. So that’s resonances. That’s objects with the similar frequency. So that’s the the speed that they vibrate. We’ll encourage each other to vibrate. Okay. And then entrainment is where you have systems of like, say you had a dozen of these tuning forks? Well, a better example for entrainment is like a flock of birds or a school of fish. And you know, they swim together. And that and they’ll fly together to create the most efficient system and move in, in harmony with each other. And so if you then take those concepts and put it to the physical body, or consciousness even is that every cell, I mean, you can go down to every cell, and actually the components of the cell, and each has its own unique frequency, and each part of our body then so the makeup of cells, and each organ, each bone, each system has its own frequency, which is a combination of those frequencies. So in essence, if you go back to the cells, and just by nature, of resonance, and entrainment, our system is naturally going to want to find its most efficient way of functioning. And so it’s going to work with those same concepts in like a school of fish or a flock of birds, it’s gonna move in harmony with one another. And so when one of those comes out of alignment, then the whole system will break down.
Amazing. It’s getting back to the rhythm of nature, isn’t it? That’s it. And we are so disconnected from nature as well. We just don’t and you put anyone in nature for a weekend, you know, you go away, what do they always say, Oh, my God is so much better. You know, because yeah, they’re they’ve just gone back into resonance with the laws of the
natural harmony of life. Yeah, and it’s like, and that these are studies that are doing, you know, a sound of a jackhammer, or traffic is a different frequency than the sound of birds chirping or waves crashing, and that the waves crashing and the birds chirping. And these types of sounds actually have a specific vibration. That elicits a healing or relaxation response within our bodies, whereas the modern sounds are more fast and invasive that elicit a stress response. And so if you then look at that, he said, the world that we’ve created and we live in is great in a stress response in me, but the natural world that I was actually birthed in from millennia of evolution creates a relaxation response in me. Well, there’s a problem right there. And then then you go into what science you know, that I think we talked about this study is like, what is the 85 to 90% of all diseases? Is stress related? Yeah. So when we want to create more harmony, literal harmony within
chemists addicted to the stress, right? That’s it. You know, when you talked about the entrainment part, I thought that of a grandfather clock and you put all the clocks in the room, and they can all be out of entrainment, but they will all sink back in into coherence over time. Over time. Yeah,
Yeah. And the said, The second question I had for you there as well, then, is because we are so conditioned to look outside of ourselves to fix a problem.
So So and, and ultimately, for me, what this this a lot of this is about is bringing ourselves back, finding harmony and peace with us each day, or at least parts of it, to then start to recondition the body that has gone out of alignment to bring in that re entrainment to then slowly influence ourselves to make different choices and better choices that are going to support more harmony, and resonance and peace in our day. How much do you think sound? Then is having an impact on that?
You lost me in that long question. So how much is sound having an impact on creating harmony?
and in our well being?
In your well being? Yeah. Well, it’s it’s everything. It like 100%, I think we got to, we got to do is we’ve got to open up what sound is and, and I think that because we have ears. We look at sound as those frequencies that we hear with our ears. So 20 to 20,000 hertz, okay, that’s a range of hearing. And most of us would stop there and we’d say, Okay, well, that sound and I’m just going to look at those sounds that I hear as how is that going to heal me and what’s coming mean around, and why these ancient philosophies and healing modalities utilize mantra and chanting and and sound in their practices is that all of consciousness is actually vibration or sound. And that we need to open up beyond what we hear with our ears and start to look at the totality of consciousness and reality in its vibrational state and realize that we actually have the capacity to work not only with what we hear with our ears, but beyond that, I mean, we’re already using ultrasound and infrasound, which is sounds, Plasma Ball sounds above or below what we hear with our ears in ways to heal. I mean, there that nobody questions the fact that ultrasound works, and that it’s sending frequencies and able to look into the body see the fetus as it’s growing. Find tumors, there, there’s so many things that they’re using ultrasound for, in a way to explore the body, but based on the philosophies of, of resonance, and vibration, and sound, and, and then now we’re also using infrasound, to the lower frequencies, and they’re, they’re targeting kidneys, I mean, these are these are tested and used therapies in hospitals, is that they’re blowing up kidney stones with vibration. And they’re, they’re shrinking tumors. And they’re, they’re actually using focused ultrasound to work into the brain, and they activate different neural pathways, based on that theory of resonance that they tuned to the frequencies of those neural pathways, those neural networks, and then because they’re in resonance, they send an amplified sound or vibration to that, and then that resonance actually then allows it to vibrate to such a state that it’s kind of like a glass, you know, you ever see the opera singer that sings to the glass and the glass shatters. Well, the same theory and the same philosophy is working. I mean, this is not theory anymore, this is this is happening, they are able to send sound vibrations beyond what we hear into our brains and actually shatter cells and structures, and, and in that create a healing and they don’t have to then drill into the head or cut the head open or body open, they’re actually able to focus that directly to the point that they need to work. And it’s like, wow, this is this is insane. it’s mind blowing. And so, you know, I went on a bit of a tangent there with with that, because we’re not obviously gonna create ultrasound or infrasound, and focus technology through our voice and heal in that way. But it’s the same philosophy in a different angle is that by working with our voice, we’re resonating, the bones are resonating the cells, we’re resonating all aspects of ourselves to create that harmony and create that well being.
That entrainment you spoke of…
That entrainment you spoke of and that resonance.
Yeah. And you know, that works. I always look at it from I try and distill this stuff down to the most basic way that I can conceive it, so that it’s like, oh, I get that. And then we don’t spend all day talking about the science and trying to prove everything, it’s like, I’ve gone down that rabbit hole. Let science figure out what the ancients have already known. I’m gonna sit into what the ancients already know, and just be healed. Like, let the science prove what we’re doing later. But some people need that right totally. So um, there’s still it down to three things is that you know, that stress in the body that we were talking about that is this the basis of pretty much any illness or disease or imbalance within our lives. It stems from three main areas in our in ourselves, and it stems from the mind. So we have thoughts that are chaotic or out of balance or out of harmony, let’s say they’re stressed, we’ve got then emotions. So within the basically emotions being biochemistry. So the biological component of ourselves, the chemistry within us is out of balance or out of harmony, it’s in a in a stress state. And then the third is the actual body. And that’s, I think, more able to understand because it’s so real to us is that the tension in the body is a stress. And that’s not just the muscles, it’s the systems in the organs and everything actually can hold a tension and stress. And so we got physical, mental and emotional components that are then holding the stress that creates the imbalance or the disharmony that then creates the disease or the the the stress the the chaos in our lives, right problems
in our lives. So
Yeah, so those three things, if I start working with those three things, then I should be able to release that stress and release the imbalance and create more harmony and peace and all the things that I want to create in my life. And what one thing has the capacity to work in all three of those places sound, it is the most active thing that we can do in our mind, which is the nervous system. So the brain is stimulated like nothing else, you put the scan of the brain on the screen as you’re working with sound, hearing sound, or making sound. And your brain lights up like a Christmas tree, from the most advanced to the ancient, most ancient parts of your brain. And that stimulates the entire nervous system. And there’s a whole study around the vagus nerve and how that’s impacted and relaxed or stressed based on the sounds that it’s hearing and receiving. So working the nervous system, then you also got through listening to sound you’re releasing from like relaxed sounds, and repetitive mantras and droning sounds and an ongoing sounds with a specific rhythm that is marrying an natural rhythm of life of nature. Those sounds create chemicals, such as oxytocin, and serotonin and dopamine. And these are the relaxing the feel good hormones that are being produced. And so you’re able to create that relaxation, as well as a stimulation. And why do I also accentuate the stimulation is because it’s not just a relaxing, that creates well being. It’s the ability to traverse through a stress a relaxed response within ourselves, that actually builds a resilience and a capacity to maintain harmony, as we need to be motivated to do work and live and function in our worlds. And then also relax. And that’s one of the things that we’ve lost is this ability to elicit that we’re just pumping the stress hormones and cortisol and no one ever never neuro epinephrine and all these different things into our body. And so we get out of balance there. And music has the capacity to traverse that and then retrain recondition ourselves, to be able to be motivated and relaxed at the same time. And then the third component being the body, and that the body, the cells of the body are actually receiving these vibrations and frequencies to relax, to come into harmony with each other to function as a total system, instead of the ones that are out of vibration out of frequency, creating a an interference. So it’s, um, I find it fascinating that that there is a study that they actually have identified these little antenna like structures coming out of the cells, the cell membrane, that are called primary psyllium. And these are almost like tuning forks, they stick out of the cell. And they’re a little protein, like antennas. And they’ve actually proven this they’ve sent this is a documented study in that those cilia are able to that they’re able to receive the vibrations of sound of light of radio waves. And so each cell of our body has an antenna. And it’s not just that they’re receiving it is that these protein like structures when they get impacted with these vibrations, and through resonance, so if those frequencies are hitting a similar tone that resonates with them, and they start to vibrate, then that triggers an electrical response that then changes the cell structure. Okay. And so in essence, the sound and the vibration that we’re hearing around us, the external as well as the internal is then triggering a vibrational response that causes that cell to change. And so within that, now they’re starting to explore or is there certain frequencies and vibrations and tones that I can utilize to target those cells that aren’t resonating at their normal frequency, and create a health and wellness? So yeah, I don’t know how that’s the best I can.
Even Bruce Lipton is talking about that. Yeah. And he speaks about the antennas that that’s actually picking up the frequency of our consciousness. And that’s our Yeah. Connection. That’s, like, that blows my mind at 00 point field, right.
Yeah. And, and that’s the other thing that there is that we tend to think of this empty space as empty space, but it’s not it’s it’s subtle vibrations. And I was actually there’s Max Planck, he’s got a quote when he, he’s one. He’s basically the founder, one of the founders of quantum physics, Max Planck, I think get a Nobel Peace Prize in 1918 or something like that. But I just actually have is quote up here on my screen, is that he talked when he received that award. He is He said, all matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force, which brings the particle of an atom to vibration. And holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. And it’s like these subtle energies of space that are out there. And this is what he’s looking at, you know, the quantum realm, you know, the space between the atoms actually holds these vibrations that are turning and torquing on themselves to create a, almost a vortex of, of compression, that then sends anti matter or the, you know, subtle energies into form. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s like, and this is what mystics have talked about for millennia. So cool. Another
Yeah. And language is catching up with
encourage everyone. If they just think that, you know, we’re a couple of woowoo hippies on a conversation trying to prove a point like, Watch. Watch particle fever on Netflix. It’s about the Hadron Collider. Yeah, the whole documentary is about finding the call that the God Particle didn’t I like, like it 25 years to build this big donor, just that covered the land of Switzerland and basically run two photons of light to collide them together, to then see what creates that. And it all comes down to the Higgs field or the zero point field. And where’s that coming from? is quite incredible.
For say it’s an energy,
it’s a force, it’s an energy. So you know, what I question was coming to me, I thought it’d be nice to tie in as well for yourself is because people might be listening to this and go, Wow, that’s interesting. That’s great. But how is that going to help me right now, because I’m, I’m stuck in a job I hey, I, you know, good. There’s actually a couple of things I sprang out of there. One is when we’re in a genuinely distress response, we end up really don’t even realize that we’re in the stress response we just live in from that place. And it’s become so familiar, except that to be normal, and, and it’s proven that when you’re in a stress response, and living from that place, your decision making is very different to when you’re not in a stress response. So you end up cascading the effects the way you speak to people, the way you behave, the attitudes, the habits, you embrace, the food you eat, the movement on lack of movements you do it are all kind of then triggering into from a place of choices coming from the stress response. So that’s why I love this work, and why we do what we do. Because once we start to impact the core, we can actually start to influence the decision making, which for me, is everything because poor decisions lead to poor, you know, it shows up in our life at some stage further down the track, there’s no avoiding it. But in saying all of that, how has sound helped you heal over the years?
that last bit that you just spun it back on me? I was like, okay, or does it go? Threw me tht way. Yeah.
Because Because the reason why I asked that question is because I think if you could share a part of your own journey and how it showed up for you in your life in different ways to where you are now. I think it would certainly help people relate to where they might be feeling stuck and certain areas in their life right now and then have actual tangible kind of idea of
Yeah, absolutely. No, I hear you. I’m just I’m just pulling from the wells of my history he defined where this shows up in many different ways. I, what came to mind is I go back to when my mom died, she died. I was 22 going on 23. So it’s been it’s been two years now. 20 some years ago, I was at university at that point. And I remember it was, Oh, you know, it’s a free for me University was about having a good time. It wasn’t so much about getting the degree I did do that as well, computer engineering degree. But at that point, and actually, my mom’s death was like one of those triggers that said, Oh, it’s time to grow up, it’s time to stop screwing around and make something of yourself. But in that grief, and in that trauma of her dying, I was listening to Wayne Dyer, which is a gift that that my dad actually stuffed down my throat at a young age was all these personal development concepts and theories and things. And so Wayne Dyer was on my list of cassettes that I had in my car. And he was doing a thing, a meditative series. So I forget the name of it at this point, but it was you do a morning meditation where you are working with sound called a job of meditation and that’s just repeating the sound of God or Allah Krishna which is A over and over and over again, for like, 20 minutes. So he did 24 minutes. He’s like, if you do one minute a day, for every hour in your day, then you can transform your life. So 24 minutes, right. And you do that in the morning. And then in the evening, he would chat the sound own, which is the sound of completion of relaxation and in his series there. And so talk about being in that, you know, the old guy that you were mentioning, well, this was the old man, right? Middle America.
Yeah. And your mom died suddenly. Right, that, you know, so came as a shock. And then you came
as Yeah, she wasn’t sick. It was Yeah, it was a sudden death. Yeah, unexpected. So it was, you know, it was this has been my journey. That was one of the big catalysts to lead me down this road is that, you know, another story is actually saw vision of her and had this experience where she exposed me to the sounds and vibrations, and this expansion of life beyond my senses. And it’s like, that’s a whole nother story. But in this trying to cope with my stresses, and my grief, was I needed to, I needed to find a way out because it was a, it was a, I was falling in a hole, I was drinking more, I was suicidal, I was depressed, I was angry, I was, you know, all these different things was what came up for me, being in Middle America, and not knowing myself being a young boy that some, you know, has these sensitivities, and this ability to be intuitive, and in western Middle America, you know, where it’s like, cornfields and shotguns and, you know, be a man kind of world. And, um, and so I was trying to find a way to cope with all that. And it would have been much worse if I didn’t have these, these meditations to lean on. And so I, I don’t know what inspired it. I mean, I guess maybe just because I was exposed to at a younger age, so meditation and how that impacted me and allowed me as a child to relax in myself and not be so anxious and nervous in school. And then I leaned back into it. And so I would drive my car to one of the football fields or something out in the distance, that we’re in the practice fields, and sit in the car, and do this all meditation because I couldn’t do it with my roommates. Like, if I was sitting in my room going, ah, and doing that over and over for 24 minutes, they’d be like, what the hell you’re doing, right? Like, you’ve lost the plot, and they’d like, probably kick my ass and say, Come on, have a beer, you know, like, you know, you know how it is. So, I do, yeah, I had the run away and find my own spot, and I’ve meditated every day, for months, and did that sound and I would come out of that. And it was like this, this light, you know, this, this place of hope, again, in this place of, of possibility that would emerge to me, it’s like, all this pain and this grief from my mom dying and what was going on for me and trying to find myself at that time in my life, and the confusion, and, you know, the hurt all this stuff that was there was like, compressing down on me. And it was like, pushing me down and, and then to be able to go and this fine this moment, you know, 20 minutes, 24 minutes. And just by repeating that sound, that mantra over and over, it’s like, all that lifted off of me. And it was like, my heart was able to start to open again, and I was taught to find this place of motivation. And this this place of purpose, I guess. And, like, I want to, I want to move forward with my life, I want to live my life, I want to make something of myself and, and it was from that practice, that then allowed me to finish my studies and graduate and move into that career and, and it just rolled on from there. And the doors open when we start to take action inspired action in our lives. So you know, that to me is very precious. And, and something that I always remember, and
I’ve never heard that story all the years have known? Yeah, I’d never heard that.
Yeah, and like, I mean, I didn’t even go into detail about the weird or wacky shit that happened in that car when I’m meditating and the visions and conversations I had with my mom. And it’s like, it allows you to relinquish the bonds, I think of our conditioned reality and access a greater part of ourselves.
Why do you think especially men as well, like I think women are but why do you think we’re so challenge to even go there in the first place to play with it and like, Who gives a shit anyway, kind of attitude. And there’s this wall, you know, because even I keep thinking back to the retreats. And especially the ones who’ve just run January and March. And yeah, but numerous people that brought their husbands wives brought their husbands. their husbands were there purely because the wives said, Come You know, I don’t know how but but they were supporting or whatever and step into this world was, like, if there was a minus on the zero Richter Scale of what they’re expecting, then it would be a minus expectation, you know, yeah. And to see, but to come in open enough to, to give it a crack and see the the joy and the smiles and something laid up that you can’t extinguish. Once it’s lit, that’s the thing for me. Like, once you get that, yes, back
ooof,this is huge.
It’s huge. So there is a question in there somewhere for you. Yeah,
probably why? Why is it so hard for men to go to that place? Yeah. I think yeah, I mean, this is a huge question. And, and something that, like you say, is so beautiful to see these men, not only men, it’s like, I think this this is humans, we shut down in different ways. I mean, obviously, women are more connected to their emotions based on the conditioning that they’ve had, and, and how they are in their bodies. I mean, it’s it’s different way of being in their bodies. But for me, I can only only pull from my experience and being in that middle America, world and family being very supportive and nurturing and caring. Yet, you know, I remember times when my basement where I would choreograph different dance things to songs that I liked. And it was like, Oh, that’s, that’s cute, you know, but, you know, go study your maths, you know, and it’s like, and then I watched my girls, and I mean, obviously, I’m a different person than my parents and the environment that I grew up in, but it’s like, girls dance. And they they’re, they’re encouraged to go into ballet, they’re encouraged to go into choir and sing and play instruments more so than I think boys are boys, like, oh, give them a ball, you know, go go play some sport, you know, do this. And you know that they’re all beneficial. But there’s a creativity that gets squelched, I think more so in boys than in girls. And to me, creativity is spirituality is life. And that’s something that I actually then allowed me to move more into sound as well as that I found myself in Los Angeles working in a computer job that opened doors to the whole Hollywood world, and the possibility to explore acting and music and, and I picked up a few instruments and started playing them. And it’s like, and that reignited that same inner child that was dancing in his basement to the songs that had no outlet for it. Because Oh, you know, we’re going to put a boy into a dance class, is that okay? In our paradigm, it wasn’t. And so I think there’s a creativity that gets lost a lot easier for boys than for girls. And then there’s fear around it, too. I think. For a long time, like I said, I was doing that meditation, that’s not a big deal, just to tell time and one sound,
but it feels massive,
feels massive, I would be judged I would be, you know, like credit criticized for what I was doing and made fun of, that’s a scary thing. I mean, at the basis, we want to be connected, we want to feel safe. And I think we lean into that. So yeah, and, and I think also with that, one thing that I do want to mention is that as we you know, we sit in these in the space of your 30 some people in our retreats and you know, that last retreat in January that we had, we had, like a third of them were men that came to that. And it was a beautiful thing to see these men, and they were in ways they were leading the way of opening up during that weekend. And it inspired the women. And I think I was taken aback a little bit at the fact that, you know, these men were shouting from the hearts and opening up and saying some really deep beautiful things, tears streaming down their face about, you know, stuff happened as a child or whatever is going on for them. And the women in the room like jaws dropping like, and, and the what was voiced by some of the women is like, I didn’t know men could feel like that, or had that capacity. And I think that’s another condition thing that doesn’t really get touched on because, you know, it’s just accepted as what is and i think it’s it’s important to acknowledge that we all have the same heart, and we all have the same potential to feel and connect at a authentic level beyond what we were conditioned to in our lives and and to me that that’s, that’s living in harmony with each other.
Yeah, totally. Man, that you there’s one other area I want to go with before we wrap up the conversation where the time but yeah, and I think one of the biggest challenges is as well. And this is where I’m trying to make it tangible for the work that you do and how it shows up in our life is we can often feel we’re in a job we don’t want to be doing we feel stuck with Feel off purpose, there’s something deeper within us wanting to come through, but we’re terrified of and fear holds us back. And I know that happen for myself and for you. And I always wonder, I always wish I was in your very first sound workshop. You know, when you when you when you go off on that tangent because you fully surrendering and stepping into an unknown and you and you said something earlier that I think and I deeply believe in my heart of hearts now that the universe meets you halfway, if you’re willing to take inspired action leading into that direction, it’s not going to paint you the picture, because you’re not going to learn and grow. But by taking the action first, things start to present themselves for you along the way and help navigate your path. And it’s been able to get used to living from that place. How do you find for yourself over the years? Because we do that more and more now. And obviously, that’s what we promote with live in flow as this work, help show up, I’m just thinking of people listening to this today? Because I know, I think that would be a very poignant point.
How did I find myself in a room with big Gong and danger?
And how did sound help support that from the journeys because for me, and I’ll allude to it, like when I go into one of your, your journeys, or meditation or different practices we do, there’s such an important surrender component that comes with that, for me, that allows us to overcome our fears in our internal world, but then it can show up in our external world. Yeah, well, I
think you’re touching on something that I feel is important to share is that, you know, I alluded to, before that we tend to look at sound as entertainment, and something that we can just relax in as a passive experience. And it’s, it’s, it’s far from that it’s one of the most active experiences we can actually participate in. And within that, you know, I mentioned that the three components that we’re working with the body, the mind, and the emotion, the neurology, the biology, and the physicality, and those three things are then being impacted and have a potential to be conditioned through sound in positive ways, and build a resilience and empowerment within it within us. And, and that is at the basis then of, of how we see the world and how we actually meet the world. And the choices we make the actions we take, as you alluded to before. And so I always lean into that with the work is in. And that’s one of the hurdles I think of getting people in, they come into a sound bath, okay, I’m just gonna sit back and enjoy this bath, it’s like, full, that’s not, not how I work is that through my experiences, you know, I was doing massage work is one of the first outlets for me to survive my computer job and in Oregon, and in a cubicle. And something that stimulated my mind and in utilize the fact that I had a mathematical brain, but it didn’t fill my soul. And so I was I was slowly dying in that cubicle, working on a computer. And so one of the first outlets was, you know, acting class, and then also I did massage work. And in in that massage work, then I was starting to feel into what people were feeling. And then from that exploration, led me to, you know, a master’s program and learning more about psychology and how everything works. But inside of that, I was realizing that there’s vibrations, and there’s frequencies, and I actually then used tones because I was, you know, playing in a band and doing acting, and, you know, using my voice and this kind of thing. And so it just kind of met each other in the massage room, and said, I wonder if I push on this muscle, that’s tense, and I’m really working that muscle to try and relax it. But if I just send a sound into that, and I and I did, and I would just tone it simple, like an all sound like what I was working with Wayne’s process, and people’s bodies will relax their muscles to relax. And so that would open up the door to me. So what’s what’s going on there, it was an active thing. In that day, then we’ll exhale, or their bodies within resonate with those vibrations and elicit emotions, which are another vibration or thoughts. And it would help them gain an insight to where they’re holding resistance within themselves. And I think, then that, you know, the story can go on and on, I could talk for another hour about that journey. But, you know, through the different modalities that I then started to play with, and work with sound and frequency were the basis in the in, in our own voice is in a breath. And in that in order to make the sounds with a voice, we have to elongate and strengthen our breathing, which again, you’ve got some podcast about that which are incredible. But you know that it’s the letting go of that resistance. And I think in each one of those steps, it was just my journey. I just kind of have these moments where I’m like, Well, let me just try this. Let me just explore that. Send in that curiosity. City. And that surrender, like, doesn’t make sense. But let me do it, I mean, the first time I started bringing more sounds, and I had a smaller gun than this, that didn’t sound very good. And I just banging it over people’s bodies, just, you know, like, wonder what this will do and, and playing the digit over them in it Sue their bodies. And it was just an exploration, experimentation and ways of which I would feel in myself how the sound of the ditch work for me how that gong made me feel and then allow them to, to explore that. And it’s just a constant surrendering, letting go and in allowing things to unfold that then now I’m in this place where this initial process that I developed 10 years ago, or more, I didn’t know what I was doing. Mostly, I kind of had an idea. And I saw how it worked for me and for other people. But now there’s science that’s coming to me, that I’m reading about, and it’s making sense, and it’s like, supported in all these different aspects of ourselves. And it’s like, oh, I could have never logically found that path. If I didn’t surrender and let go. And just allow things to, to inform me to, to inspire me. And I think that’s something that we all can lean into. And it’s, it’s not just the laying down and letting it happen. It’s like in each one of those moments where I had this inspiration, or this thought, to try something new, I had to actually do that new thing. And step out of my comfort zone, to allow it life to meet me. And, and that’s what I that’s what I like to teach in the in the processes and working with the sound of vibration is a visceral experience that gives people an opportunity to look at their totality of themselves mental, emotional, physical, and start to explore Where is there a resistance in me that I’m holding, and not allowing life to move through me. And then in essence, creating a possibility of something more, because I think that’s that the basis of the of the stress response is, is a contraction in a stress response. And what is a contraction do it creates a holding, and if you try and hold any aspect of life, it dies, it can’t sustain itself. Your breath is a rhythm that is breathing constantly, you try and hold it, it will cease. And the the heart is a bait, a rhythm that is moving. And if you look at those two as a basis of life through through us, then it’s metaphor in its metaphor, and in its basis of what it is. It’s a rhythm. It’s a it’s a movement. And so why would we not meet life in that way? And why wouldn’t it would make sense then that if we allow the rhythm of thought, of, of emotion, of physicality to flow, that then we would elicit more life and more potential within us, instead of a holding and a contraction, which creates a restriction and a limited possibility. And so I think that’s the basis is how can I, how can I expose people to an experience where they can see where they’re holding in themselves, so they have an opportunity to then to let go, and then that letting go meet life at a greater capacity and have a greater experience in this brief time that we’re here.
Beautiful. And that’s and that’s the difference between doing doing coming for a sound bath, and actually come in to do the work.
Right, exactly. Right.
Yeah. And and the mental difference around that. And that’s what excites me about retreats is because we get people for four days and in August will be for six days. And then you you actually daily, we’re really able to work with you from different modalities and different angles till people fully embody this and get this and it is so beyond the thinking mind is not funny. It’s an experience once you once you once it clicks. You don’t go back, which is exciting. Now
you can’t go by
now. You know and I’m aware of the time and pushing the time Yeah, person the time limit, but I just want to speak to everyone about this. If they’re still on the fence or skeptical on still not sure still trying to wrap their head around it. Definitely re-listen, especially to that last part you said. I think it’s the most important part of the show, you know, in its essence, but we have been in discussions with actually people doing their PhD from the University. And we’re looking at hopefully Fingers crossed been able to do a lot of measurements in this upcoming retreat either July or August. I’m not sure. from not only the psychological, we’ll do another analysis but to the physiological as well, even to potentially measure intelligence as which is mind blowing when I, it makes me sound very intelligent when I say the word telomere. You know, that’s it. But
the science was in there.
Yeah. Which is basically the DNA in measuring your lifespan. But it we’re genuinely excited. And I think the more data that can be brought forward and speak to Western minds, I think the more access, more people are going to be open to this kind of work. Last question. With everything we’ve covered today, is there anything you want to leave our listeners to ponder on?
I would say I mean, we haven’t, we haven’t really touched on the process or practices or how to do this work at all. And that’s where I would go, I
got a caveat though, we’ve got nine other episodes that do.
This is true, is true, we pull it apart. And if you really want to dive in, just get your butt to our tree. Yeah, we’ll show you all about it. But yeah, I would just say play. And not only with sound, but with life and, and start, just do this. Each day for a few days, it’s just when you wake up, instead of looking at your reality, your life as a physical world that has all these challenges and struggles and things that we need to shift and, and make happen and and get through. Look at your life as a song. And start to play with this idea that all of consciousness is vibration, and everything that you’re looking at everything that you’re experiencing, hearing, tasting, smelling, and touching is actually just a series in a collaboration of vibration, or a song that’s in front of you, and that you are the conductor of the song. And that in each moment, you have the opportunity to create a beautiful symphony of sound that is harmonious and joyous. Or you can create a disjointed, out of time incoherent, chaotic, set, heavy metal head bashing kind of experience. It’s up to you. And to just have that in the back of your mind as you’re going through your life. You’re meeting people you’re having these relationship moments there, what song am I creating here? What am I singing into life into reality? And can I sing something more soothing, more joyous, more heartfelt? and just see what comes with that. You don’t have to do any toning and sound make weird sounds just just have that concept. And then if that starts to create a shift of awareness and possibility in which I do believe it will, just the awareness of it and the consciousness of it, then come hang out. We’ll we’ll show you some ways to work with the voice to even bring that to a more empowered place and help you to take more command of that song that you’re singing.
Beautiful. Thank you sir. Thank you for coming on the podcast today man.
Oh man, I always enjoy have next time we need about a four hour time.
We’ll definitely be more he’ll definitely be more I just want to I just want to acknowledge you and to everyone listening today that like you know, you’ve been a massive part of my journey along the years and and your gift to the world mate. And I feel blessed to be able to work alongside you. And a lot of the processes that we do together and I just want to honor that and and say thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Thank you and the feeling’s mutual man.