#117 My amazing guest this week is Prof Ervin Laszlo, It was an honor to have Ervin on the show. Twice nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, Professor Ervin Laszlo is the prolific author, co-author or editor of more than 100 books translated into over 20 languages.
At the age of nearly 88 years old, his wisdom and knowledge is incredible, and we certainly got to the heart of message today. Simply put, how spiritual experience can change your life, and how the new science is supporting such experiences. These are the topics covered in his new book: RECONNECTING TO THE SOURCE – The New Science of Spiritual Experience, How It Can Change You, and How It Can Transform the World. Enjoy!
About Prof. Ervin Laszlo: Ervin Laszlo is the founder and President of The Club of Budapest, Director & Co-Founder of the Ervin Laszlo Institute for Advanced Study (ELIAS) and of the Laszlo New-Paradigm Leadership Center (Italy).
He was Senator of the International Medici Academy, and Editor of the international periodical World Futures: The Journal of General Evolution. He also the author or co-author of fifty-four books translated into as many as twenty-three languages, and the editor of another thirty volumes including a four-volume encyclopedia.
Learn more about Prof. Ervin:
Guy: Hi, my name is Guy Lawrence. And thanks for tuning into my podcast today. If you’re enjoying these conversations and you want to check out more of this transformational work, be sure to come back to guylawrence.com.au and join me as we go further down the rabbit hole. Enjoy the show.
Guy: Ervin, welcome to the podcast.
Ervin: Guy, wonderful to be here with you.
Guy: I really appreciate it. The first question I wanted to ask you Ervin was that I when I was reading about you, you’ve written or co-authored or edited over a hundred books and that blew my mind and a lot of that has been on the cosmos and source energy and I was fascinated. What has been your biggest driver for that passion over the years? Cause it’s quite an achievement you’ve achieved in your life.
Ervin: But I never set out to write the book. I never designed or there was never a plan. If I had some ideas, I wanted to develop it and if it started to make sense for me and then I kept at it and when I got together at material that I thought I can share, then I tried to find ways to share it with articles in journals or lately also via internet. Uh, but very often through books actually. And the one book papers were, the next one is just, uh, continued. But I the main idea for me, the main intention was always to share, to share ideas that I thought are meaningful to me, I thought should be meaningful and are these they also urgent for others. And so I wrote it down, writing it down first of all for myself from our own benefit, uh, thinking that if it makes sense and maybe I can see the world with a little bit clearer. And then if I felt when I wrote it down, I said, yes, this is something I would like to share with my family. I did so much for a broader public than, and I allowed the church to come in.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. And why your fascination with the universe and the cosmos. Because from from my own experience, it always used to feel such a vast topic and you know, my little mind would be worried about my day to day things. But as I’ve kind of looked more into this work and felt more of a connection, that’s why I love the title of your new book reconnecting, you know, um, it started to become more relevant. I was just interested on your journey. Why, why that fascination on that intrigued to look into it so deeply?
Ervin: Well, I’m not a physicist and not a cosmologist. I’m a philosopher, although I don’t like to put things into boxes like that.
Guy: Of course.
Ervin: For me, the universe is not something out there. The universe is reality as basic a reality as we can be, as we can get to. I have a hunch, which was this became a strong conviction over these decades that everything evolves. Every single originates, originates from some place and it goes, goes in some direction. So my real love affair is so to speak with evolution. Evolution as a progressive change. That is not random, that is meaningful and officiary a part and of which you can be a conscious part of. That’s where a great responsibility to be a good part of something that can further this evolutionary process here. Of course it starts with the universe. It comes from the universe, but are not the astronomer type of universe or believer or a consideration. A philosopher. I think the universe, as I said, is the base is the basis for all things. So when I talk you also by my new book about the source, the source is the universe, but I don’t clean the galaxies per se, but by the process, the whole evolutionary process has brought us here, which made us what we are and which we’ve opened the way to the future if we can respond positively.
Guy: Okay. And did you talking about your new book, reconnecting to the source. When you say reconnecting, what do you, what do you mean by that exactly?
Ervin: Well, I mean that in the traditional times, in classical times, people felt a much stronger connection, is nature to nature the world around them. The even people that is highest spirits and haa all of these notions with divinitus or is a God the Dow or whatever. Uh, so they were built into a world and this was a much more meaningful and whole system world as a true and that connection has been broken or not actually broken but sort of submerged under the weight of everyday concerns. So we are no longer feelers of corrective. We are no longer guided by our connection because that’s another point I want to make. I think when we are connected and we are also being guided, a connection is something like a GPS. It was something that tells us where we are and if you can dial in these programs, so to speak our destination or as to be a positive future as to be a future, they all can live and thrive.
Ervin: Then also this connection can show us the way business, again, spiritual insights, all this of course, but it has been on me so fondly called [inaudible] a spiritual. But today we know that spirituality, at least I know and I would like to share this, spirituality is not something separate. It’s part of our thinking, part of our, of our, of our upper being. And when we tap into the source, we have a spiritual experience because it goes beyond the range of eyes and ears of the senses. And when we have that experience, then we get our in contact, we get in contact with something that is deeper and greater than us. That is, I think the great recurrent insight really have James, you know, the father of modern psychology and the pregnancy feel as a first step. The key element of the religious experience is that we are in touch with something that is greater than us.
Ervin: I sent has also echoed this [inaudible] and so on. So this is I think something very basic. You are no consequences very much in practicing meditation. And I think you have your own experience about this. My, I don’t practice meditation in a formal way. It just happens to me and allow it to come to me and I myself to submerge into a deeper level and then read and try to understand what’s coming and I find I might want to experience that things are, ideas are popping up, are coming through a sense of which way to go, what is right and what is wrong, what is the right way to go, what is fruitful, what is what is in fertile. So this is, this is something that I feel I’m guided to and I try to work it out in light of classical knowledge and the light of modern science and this new book I tried to connect it to, you know, connect the contemporary science, quantum science with some of the issues, insights that come forth with come to to spiritual people, but come to to also all of us, anyone of us who is willing as you would well know him as you practice it and teach it to get into a deeper level of meditation.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. I relate to everything you say and for you on your own personal life and having that deep sense of connection
Guy: what is that meant to you in the choices you make in the way you live in life? Because I feel so many people are unaware that there’s this deeper sense of connection that’s possible to source energy cause we sold living in our busy-ness and fear and kind of in a, in a very stressed Western, uh, way of living. Um, but for you or for you personally?
Ervin: Well, nothing, nothing new to me. You see, I grew up with this experience of music. You know, I was a classical pianist in our charter schools. The child prodigy was bringing concepts from these of nine and uh, on until I was in my mid thirties, that’s how I made my living. She was a fee on science fair hobbies or interests and my extra profession was, was giving concerts. And then it turned around and it became [inaudible] and science became my main activity and [inaudible] and his relation and music was, became an interesting, not hub. It’s more than a hobby, but that passion. So what is it, what it meant to me always that that is some thing beyond, beyond the everyday world language. You can feel it in music when you’re a performer and you get into it. And also I think these scenarios can happen as well, but as a performer is very clear and seems go right and everything flows just the way you want it, then you’re not just so much interpret music, a composer as you compose it yourself.
Ervin: That’s the way it has to go. That’s the way it goes. And then you are almost in another dimension, much more fluid, much more dynamic and much more meaningful and that sense of the one dimension and is the whole world we being coherent and that has stayed this week. So it’s not something I acquired. It’s something in a way I inherited it. It became already an age of five and my parents who are great music lovers, my mother was a piano teacher herself, but they discovered that I have a talent for music and from their own IBOs understand that music is my life destination. That’s my chore. My costume like this to play concert and never doubted that this as a child, as a young person. So that experience was started for me very, very early in life. These are five, six and seven and it’s subsidy that stays with me, so I can’t see how it’s feels because it feels like living. It’s just for me, my nightmare experience is, it is
Guy: Beautiful. Beautiful. I hear you. A quote the other day as well with your book reconnecting to the source you new book that uh, it’s probably the most important book you’ve written, uh, in a long time. And uh, I was wondering if you could expand on that, why you think that is
Ervin: or is it just a bit tongue and cheek? I should see that. Always my latest book.
Ervin: Well it’s important, but the [inaudible] it’s the same back on it. I think this is unusually important by the way I’m writing now. Our followup, which is also rich, carries forward this whole RUO [inaudible] in light of the idea of an Akashic field, everything is connected. That everything is, is remembered, everything is, remains, nothing is appears. And that’s how that looks in terms of quantum science. So I think that’s what would be another important book. And this particular book reconnects me to the source. It’s a messenger I want to be, it’s a message I want to give back. Spiritual experience happens probably to all of us if you don’t suppress it. And that is important, important to get to allow it to come force and to listen to it, to let it, and this is particularly important in these days. I mean in these very turbulent times because as I said, it is a guidance.
Ervin: At the same time he chose us over as we can go because he shows us how much one we can really be. His nature is other people. And actually as we said in the beginning, extra was the universe itself. It’s just, it’s a sense, it’s a feeling. And I think it’s particularly important today because we have to reestablish this connection is now becoming so fashionable as you know, coming from Japan, but penetrating everywhere, perhaps also in Australia is to go for example, forest basic. Just go out in the forest and and, and feel it, feel it and spot. That’d be wonderful. One visit nature in any sense was that it’s a plan or just looking at the clouds. I love to go walking every morning. I live out in the country, I go walking my dog and we smell. We look around, we experience the world as it’s fairs together and he said he’s a wonderful companionship.
Ervin: At the same time you see the world through the eyes of, I think it’s super intense, a dog, but I don’t, so I think this is a can be a Gaither experience, which is something we would be need very much to rediscover ourselves as being part of each other and parts of nature and we wouldn’t engage in this exploitative, selfish. It will send to politics and and business. Ah, okay. We only look at our own immediate gratification and this regard with us. I’m not saying everybody does that, but still is. The ruling is the guiding principle in these days too. To make money and to be successful in that sense and to be as powerful as possible in, in, in, in politics and these ideas of course in a highly stressed environment in the world which is highly interdependent are very dangerous tactics because they trigger privilege a few others and that eventually disrupts the system.
Ervin: As we see now more and more and that is feeds back to even to the, to the powerful and to the well see nobody’s outside of this system. We have to work on it together and that message that we are one business system, we are part of it. We have, it has to be a conscious part of it. We have to evolve is the system and how the systems are, well, I don’t mean artificial system, I mean system of nature. That universe which is results which is in us also that I think is a message which is very important and in is book. I tried to show that this message comes through in the spiritual experience of almost all people who really allow this experience to occur to them. And it’s a wonderful experience because it ends by this feeling of oneness, this feeling of a lot of things, and it changes who we are. The experience of music changed, music chart. Other people readily have these experiences, changes. Then we transformed them and it makes them more loving, more, more people, greater solidarity. It creates a sense of belonging and this is what we needed today’s road to pull together to get out, to get beyond this crisis, these imbalances, and we will be tremendous challenges. That’s basis.
Guy: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more from my own experience. I had an experience like that five, six years ago, and when after an experience like that, I realized that everything I had was already within me and the, and it, it, it changed my whole perception on life. How I saw people, how I felt people and how I would interconnect and people and coming from a place where I felt more whole already, so then I was more connected to everything. It was the most interesting moment. Hence why I’m so passionate about this work and have a podcast and, and um, but this workout,
Ervin: the next edition of this book, I certainly would like to ask you to recount your experience as these are the private experiences. I would like to show that they exist. They’re real, they change people. And I think I’d really change people for the better.
Guy: Oh yeah. 100%. 100 would like, it’s, it’s changed my life. It’s as simple as that. And, and I, and I, the way I sort of see it and why I relate to, you know, everything that you do have in this, because I think, you know, when we, if we watch the news and we look through the TV and we see everything out there, the world is painted in this fearful, almost dog eat dog kind of place. And yet at the same time, if we can kind of start to look at ourselves and see and start to reconnect with ourselves first, that allows us to change the environment we’re in and the communities we are in. And sort of almost like from a grassroots,
Ervin: what’s up
Guy: perspective. That’s the way I kind of see it now
Ervin: for myself. Well that’s the kind of insight I think that needs to spread in the world. If people could have this transformation of business, their own experience, I think you wouldn’t need to dictate to people or try to dictate to people to do this or to do that. It will come national spontaneously. We won’t want to harm nature. You’re out to harm other people who want to be. This leads to their, their share with other people and this sounds of course like cause as prophetic utopia [inaudible] prophets were saying all this all the time, but it meant to be that we are not real people or this is, I think fundamentally we are that kind of persons. We are that kind of beads beings who are, one is our environment. You mentioned about animals, you know, I mean, let me just say two words about that and other beings, other living things don’t have this problem, but we do the very simple reason that they can’t mistake the world around them or something that it is not.
Ervin: Whereas we can develop the level of consciousness that is capable of making mistakes. You know, if not an animal in nature, constantly mistakes. It’s an environment for something as it is not will die out. It’s survive and these pieces become extinct as a natural selection school, but we don’t have natural selection acting or us because we have our own synthetic technological selection and we keep ourselves go in more than more stress. Of course, even with the mistake around us, we think of the word steel is a cognitive giant mechanism on a kind of a jungle. As you say, the dog is dog and this is a, this is now we know in the new biology, in the new forms of visits, new science and new psychology. Also it is not the nominators elements in the in the world around this cooperation working together, coherence, mainly higher levels of oneness.
Ervin: This, it seems naive, it seems metaphysical, but it is the underlying underlying motive of life on earth, on this planet and I think better the life developed in the universe. It’s bound to develop in a way in which is called coherence with its environment built into its environment. We caught separate us from the environment by our naive in that the environment is a mechanism and we can dominate the mechanism by having more and more skillful means devices that are more and more powerful and then it makes the mechanism do what we want to do. That’s a mistaken assumption is it’s, it’s not even Newton believed in that only the Newtonians Newton’s followers mean these are popular. They are not even Darwin believe that it’s only conservative to survive. If you read carefully about the role furious activity, by the way, it’s just interesting. Sidelines, this main books of Newton, the main manuscript of Newton.
Ervin: Newton is in the British museum and it’s, it’s accessible if you want to get permissions for him, but actually he describes the world much more spiritual than probably their peers or the business of his laws. His lost, he considered a surface manifestations. It’s all his followers Darwinians and Newtonians made the world what it is. They are mistaken idea or doggy door mechanism. Instead of that harmonious coherent, whole striving toward higher and higher levels of oneness bound to each other by solidarity and by law seems as I said matter of physics, but it is about coming through in the new sciences and he has to recognize that this is basically more a better description of the world than the current one. If you could just only go with that description as internalized it in us, it’d be better people, you contribute to our environment and we’d overcome this tremendous challenges that actually certainly in a live setting or even the species survival. So that’s why I think this understanding of spirituality or the experience that you described that you are fed. That’s why this is so important. And this, if you asked me what the single message of this new book is, that’s what I want to say. Yes. Listen to your own transformative experience. It shows you the word
Guy: Beautiful. And if I, if I’m not mistaken cause I, I’ve actually got your book coming, my way to read. I haven’t read it yet, but um, if I’m not mistaken, you, you have contributors, some amazing people within the book actually talking about their own spiritual experiences.
Guy: And how they connected to source
Ervin: Indeed didn’t ask, tell any of them that any of the others are also writing and certainly didn’t exchange any task. I just asked these people, have you had an experience like you yourself, the supplied the two of her, have you had a transformative experience? And these people said, indeed, there was something lacking in my life that has changed. Now ask who to describe it. And all of these people, I think he can remind them. People have agreed to that. And I’m putting it in this book because it shows how diverse these experiences can be or how closely the end result, the outcome of it is the sin. Is this how it’s over for this is the, is the feeling, the sense that indeed we are one that we’d be low to nature, to each other, to the universe and we can Sue solidarity, answer, love. We can fulfill ourselves not just matter of physics but today real physics and real life philosophy. This is what’s been neat. It is a whole, is could be something that we deems us ms could be the day for them.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. I just want to ask you one last question cause you opened a loop earlier and I want to pick it up and that was, you mentioned the word, the cashier and the cashier field and I’ve heard the word around a lot and I’ve been looking into it but I wouldn’t, would you mind explaining a little bit behind that? Cause you’ve written many books on that too. What exactly
Ervin: it’s, it became actually my best selling book. It’s called science and the Akashic field is published by you know, traditions, something like 10 years ago. And uh, it has gone through so many different divisions where now, and this is the topic of my next book, it’s called turning the loss of the Akashic field. This is, I’m saying basically that the psychiatric field is the new quantum universe universe where all things work together, that all things are become one are fuse or keeping their identity, but yet they belong together because they are vibrations on a cosmic hive heart. If you sing, if you sing, if you use this metaphor for example, are the patterns of weave patterns in that ocean or they are simply a clusters of fragrances coming together and harmonizing each other in this higher grievances. So ms Akashic IBR is very much the new quantum idea that is, that is one whole system, which is a field in which are all embedded.
Ervin: And this field is, which shows us who we truly are. We are patterns, we wave, we are clusters, whatever you want to call it in. That’s even, that’s field. And that’s field is our mother. And it’s our two or three Allity and this is what in quantum physics is discovered now as the daily book cause the implicate order as we live in the explicate order, intricate is where everything is and for the IM implicated you and pulled it together. And this is not this, the most technical and Saroyan and those from the quantum science. It’s not imagination. You have good reason to believe that it’s already plead towards right. Talked about this deeper dimension that is behind this all at our sole plate of sauce belongs to this diamonds and beyond. It remembers things from that. And then because of the mystique, the world around the school, because the reality is these details we see us, they beat him to CS 5,000 years ago called it the Akasha, the Akasha dimension, more deeper dive mentioned and the others I have fire walls that are hers and these diamonds and proceeds or the others. So now we started talking about that gastric food. If you don’t stop me, of course, but isn’t this, this is, this is the new unit. They knew the two of you.
Guy: It’s, it’s wonderful. I think, I think science, the new science is certainly a fantastic language to introduce people to this and be open to this work. Uh, it was science that allowed me to get past my own belief systems of my own upbringing and not even in aware of any of this existed. To be able to start to have a language that I understood that then allowed me to look into it, which then opened up my world. So I’m very grateful for, you know, for the work like the likes of yourself and other people out there that have a language that allow us to, to help the Western mind if you like, come to, to look at these things.
Ervin: And um, that has been my hope, my aspiration. That’s far adults. And you mentioned so many books. I didn’t, I have them all single handed. I don’t know choir. That was 45 or 47 books, something like that. It’s purely by myself. I joined, I was joined by others that are mentioned over a hundred books. 100 phone books were now, uh, these are the books that appeared under my name. Some of them. I had core authors, several of them I wrote the introduction to and I edited them. Or these are books that are associated with me. Firstly we are, they are physically, the books appeared under my name. We have our blog, I consider my books and it’s my motivation behind this was precisely what you say to teach this deeper understanding through science progressing or for worse, we believe the science can tell us something meaningful about the world. And so when you get beyond past just the creations they abstract rather than ethics and ask what does it really mean? And you can have the courage to ask that and to look after that. And I think science gives us a, one is a wonderful guide. Unlocks a lot of the mysteries.
Guy: Yeah. Wonderful. Last question for you. Even with all this knowledge that you have all this study, this writing and everything, what do you think is the purpose of whom to be human? What is the purpose of life or life do you think?
Ervin: Well, another small question, I tried to answer that. I think that answered a track to be a resent more than mean any of the other scores, the intelligence or the cosmos, which is repurposed about three years ago basically. Basically in a capsule form. I think the appearance of consciousness in the human species is not an accidental, not a byproduct. It’s not just something secretive by the brain. It’s a faculty of perceiving, of recognizing and joining something that is in the world, in the world at large. I think this universe is immersed in consciousness. Consciousness comes person because this is luxuriating got an Einstein and Bali and psychologists like younger Hans. I have been saying this and they have visit also on their own insights. I think this is important that we have consciousness in us evolving in us has evolved in us to this point and that we are capable of communicating with that larger consciousness, which is surely the basis of all things we can perceive it. We can become one visit. And to evolve this further to evolve our consciousness may be maybe our purpose, the purpose of our existence, the existence of a higher grade organisms, more complex organisms or capable of consciousness. Maybe to bring this consciousness into the world, realize a world which is penetrated not just by implicit but by explicit, by clear God consciousness, awareness of itself. And then it can move to higher and higher levels of consciousness. To my mind, that is the answer I would give to myself. The question, why am I here?
Guy: Oh, beautiful. Thank you so much for your time today. I am, I genuinely appreciate you coming on the podcast and uh, and for everything that you do and to allow it to get this work out there. So, um, I’ll be sure to, I’ll be sure to spread the word and let as many people as possible as I know about your latest book in your work.
Ervin: Gotcha. Sure. People like you who have the personal experience and know what’s going to talk to me about, no, I’d be needed also. So I’m happy to, I’ve talked with you and I look forward to continuing our checks and anything we can do to create some joint efforts and diverse, let me know. I’m dedicated to trying to spread the word that these is a very different universe than as we thought and we are very different. And then once we saw, we’re not just mechanical or biochemical beings, we are deeply conscious spiritual beings who can be a driving force, you know, and evolution. So thanks for the opportunity to discuss all of this.
Guy: Thank you Ervin. I couldn’t agree more. Thank you.