Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Rollin:
We basically have two hearts, the physical heart. We also have what we call the energetic heart. That’s not a metaphor, and it’s the bridge to what a lot of people will call their higher self. We are living in a, in a magnetic field environment, and there’s absolutely no question that we are affected by magnetic fields. We are coupled through resonance with the larger earth field, so it’s bidirectional. Not only are we affected by the field, we’re also feeding the field our thoughts and especially our emotions. But when you have a lot of people, like is a perfect example of COVID and all the fear and anxiety. When enough people are radiating that into the field, the field, in the global field environment, that’s affecting everyone.

Guy:
Guy here. Welcome to my Let It In Podcast. My epic guest this week is Rollin McCraty one of the founders of HeartMath, and I just wanted to show you on video as well as you might see if you, uh, I’m in Croatia. We’ve just literally behind these doors over here, uh, we’re wrapping up our five day retreat. It’s the last day. And you can even see, look at that view of the. This place is phenomenal. We’re in split, uh, the Meridian Live Hotel in Split. Phenomenal. Anyway, um, this podcast is phenomenal. Honestly, Roland, I just love this man. It’s amazing. The great thing about this work, obviously what we do here with Live and Flow and at the retreats and where I’m really passionate about, some of the, the conversations get very esoteric and it can, feels a bit woo, um, on times, but of course, if you’re listening to my channel on a regular basis, it’s very not normal.

But the point is, is what HeartMath has done is, is really studied the science and validated a lot of things that we see every day within. Our events, retreats and in our everyday life by through the practices. So I feel this is a really important podcast. Uh, honestly, if you make your way through it, if you listen to the information that Roland has to say, uh, it. It, it really can land. It certainly did for me anyway. And uh, and it’s definitely a good podcast that you could share with someone else that might be sitting on the fence. Curious about exploring, leaning into this work and this language and the language of science behind it. It’s certainly a great place to start if people, uh, not open to it yet.

But anyway, uh, with all that in mind, let me know where you are in the world. Uh, if you’re watching this on YouTube, comment below is always great to connect. And, uh, yeah, let me know if you even use the HeartMath techniques and how it’s helped you in your own life. Uh, we will be in, gosh, I’ll be flying home soon. Uh, I certainly miss my family. Um, but, uh, we got retreats coming up next year, 2026. My god’s nearly the end of the year. We’re gonna be January in Australia, sold out. New Zealand is almost sold out in March, which is phenomenal. And then we’re in Bali at the end of June. So, uh, if you can come and make it, come and join us, uh, I promise you, you won’t get, it’s phenomenal.

There’s been 48 of us here in total from all over the world. People from England, Ireland, obviously, Croatia, Romania, Germany, Austria, Switzerland. We’ve had somebody come over from Canada. Australia, like just bringing people together is. Uh, experience in this work is something else. It truly is. It’s life changing stuff. Anyway, enough for me. There’s links below. Uh, if you wanna find out more about us and much love, enjoy this podcast. We’re rolling. It’s awesome.

Guy:
Rollin. Welcome to the podcast.

Rollin:
Well, thank you Guy. It’s a pleasure to meet you and, to be here on having this conversation.

Guy:
My first question I love to ask everyone is, if we were at an intimate dinner party and you sat next to a complete stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, what you’re most passionate about, how would you respond?

Rollin:
Well, I, I actually do get asked that fairly often and, uh. Um, you, well, I, first I say I’m director of research for the HeartMath Institute, and a surprising number of people, it tends to always surprise me. I can be on an airplane and mention that, oh, I’ve, you know, I know I’ve heard of you, you guys are, I, I mean more, not everybody, of course. But, um, so that is often kind of the response. But then if not, I would basically say I am a, a psycho physiologist and I study, uh, primarily the physiology of emotion. And how the heart and brain communicate and, and, uh, how we can, uh, we train, uh, people how to really shift into their physiology into a state that maximizes optimal performance, uh, mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Guy:
And it’s, it’s a rabbit hole once you start opening up to this world. I mean, that’s for sure. As a guy playing rugby in whales, growing up in the valleys, I had no idea of the depth of emotions, the heart, the brain connection, and everything behind it that was even was there at all. And I’m curious, was there like a aha moment in your personal journey about the importance of the heart and, and this work?

Rollin:
Well, there have been many, I would say, um, the, um. Shortest way to answer that if I’m, if I’m truthful, guy is, um, I mean, I think I came into the planet this time as you know, with very, very curious and sense of adventure and, and, um, I was always interested from very early age in how things work. And, uh, my grandfather, I grew up in a small farming community in the Midwest, part of the, the US and my grandfather was the town mechanic. So I kinda grew up, you know, around mechanical things and electrical things and, and how to fix things and all that. But so I always had a deep curiosity about, I actually ended up becoming a. A communication engineer for, he worked for Motorola. Uh, that was my first professional career, really, or second really, I guess.

But, um, and I would always ask, um, questions like, well, what is charge actually, you know, we talk about charge. Electrons have charge, and well, what is that? Or what is a field? Uh, magnetic field, you know, and they’d always gimme the, the formula that no, no, no, I, I got that, that describes its behavior. What is it? Right? Um, and we’ll never get a, a good answer for that. It’s more like, go away, don’t ask that. Um, kind of that, that gross sometimes actually. Um, but anyway, uh, that led me to, I found a book in a bookstore, um, that started my journey. Into consciousness and, you know, um, that’s not a word I was ever even in my, you know, vocabulary at that time.

And, uh, which led me to, which started had some, some, uh, beginning to some of the kind of answers I was looking for. At least some theories and ideas. So that led me to move to California and, uh, to go to a. Uh, to get a degree in consciousness studies of all things. So that was my first entry,

Guy:
Yeah.

Rollin:
and that was, would’ve been in the 1970s. I’m getting to be an old guy now. Um, so anyway, that’s when I, that opened up a whole new world of things. And, uh, of course, in, you know, most, uh. Ideas there, you know, we learned those talks about the heart and all these different ways and, you know, you the heart chakra and all the different things, you know, and then Chinese medicine, of course the hearts, the houses, the mind, and on and on and on. And, uh, so that, I thought I knew something about consciousness and the heart, and I’m gonna make a much longer story, Connie Short here. But then I ended up getting introduced to, uh, doc Childre, who’s the founder of HeartMath. And through, I was gonna spend an hour with him. You know, I was on business and where he lived and ended up spending three days.

I think that that first time, um, hour just kept getting extended, you know, to the days. And that’s where I really learned. Um, that was my first. Real wake up just about, no, the heart is way more than a metaphor. It’s way more than this thing that’s been talked about, uh, in these ways. ’cause I had my own experience and, and it’s impossible guy to describe experiences in a way that. Convey what they’re like, but to where I, my own level of consciousness to where I was connected to my own deeper heart and lifted into another level of awareness for a period there and able to contact my larger self pretty directly. And that unfolded a lot of, uh, a lot of things for me. And, uh, so I then, I owned a company at that time and I had about 80 employees.

I think that, uh. Uh, reported to me, and I can say in that following three or four months, I made personal progress in my inner growth than I had in years of meditation. And that’s not to say that meditation practices weren’t of benefit. They were. But nowhere near the, the, the el the jumps I made, uh, very quickly. So I basically followed my own heart’s, intuitive guidance and sold that company. And then, uh, joined, uh, with Doc Childry, uh, and some others to help him found and, uh, launch the HeartMath, uh, institute.

Guy:
Thank you for sharing all that. You’ve sparked so many questions already outside of everything. One is, what was the name of the book? Can you remember?

Rollin:
Uh, doesn’t really matter. Um, and I actually can’t right now, but, uh.

Guy:
okay. I’m conscious. It’s just an open loop in my mind. But one of the things you mentioned about the, the leaps you took from once you started to explore the heart from, even though you had a regular meditation practice. Uh, can you differentiate that a bit? ’cause I think a lot of people have regular meditation practices that’s silent to mind, and, then it feels like there’s a, there’s a deeper exploration that you speak of

Rollin:
Yeah. Well that, that’s certainly been my experience and, and the experience of, I would say many, many people, uh, certainly hundreds of thousands of now and if not millions, that have started practicing the HeartMath approach and. You know, in a lot of meditation practices, you try to steal the mind, um, you know, or you focus on pineal gland or whatever, right? And, and I was never very good at stealing the mind. Uh, if I’m honest, I was sincere about meditation, but maybe not very good at it from that perspective. Although I could disassociate and fly around the universe and whip energy through the chakras, and, you know, I’m going back a lot of years now. All that.

And you know, I, as I mentioned, I owned a, a company at that time. I co-owned a company and I could have a great meditation laying on long meditation in the morning and jump in my car to get to work and navigate the traffic jams before I even got there. I was already impatient, frustrated, um, and then walk into the various employee problems that were going on or this or that, you know, so, um. Uh, I can’t say me meditation helped, but I wasn’t very self-regulated in, you know, in day-to-day life. And, um, I think that’s true for a lot of people, but really the, you know, if we fast forward of, you know, 30 some years since then and in, uh, my research career, what I would say now in what I’ve learned now is that we basically have two hearts.

And the physical heart. And we could spend a whole episode talking about the, you know, the neural structures in the heart and how the heart sends more information to the brain and how that really, and I do that a lot, you know, if I’m talking to military or law enforcement or engineers, that’s all they need to hear. But the bigger, um, understanding, um, guy is that we also have what we call the energetic heart. And that’s also been called the spiritual heart in a lot of traditions for. You know, a lot, lot of years. Um, and I’m, what I’m suggesting here is that that’s real. It’s not a metaphor. And the, we have an energetic system and the heart at the energetic heart is the conductor, if you will, of the energetic system.

And it’s the bridge to what, uh, a lot of people will call their higher self. Here at HeartMath, we just call it your larger self to kind of take this out of new age or religion, but you can also to be the, the ridge to your soul, to your spirit. Doesn’t matter what word. It depends on your, your belief, background and culture and so on. But, uh, so once with that understanding, then really what the straight line path is for spiritual growth or just becoming a more mature. Um, person, um, is really learning to align with that, uh, your larger self, right? And bring that down into our day-to-day, uh, decisions and interactions. Um, is call that the heart’s intuitive guidance?

Guy:
And that’s separate from actually going to the thoughts in the mind.

Rollin:
Yeah. Well, well, let me, yes. Say it this way. Um. You know, as, as a psycho physiologist, I have sp spent a lot of time studying emotion and what I would, the way I think we need to think about the, is an emotional system. It really is. So there are, and we can talk about that on different levels, like there’s the biochemical level. Right. You might remember Candace Pert, she was a friend of mine before she passed on and wrote the book, the Molecules of Emotion, right? So in, in her world, you know, emotion’s all about the biochemistry, right? The, the peptide hormones and the neurotransmitters. And, and that’s true and it’s definitely a important part of the emotional system.

However, you talk to a neuroscientist. Or a phys, psycho physiologist, kinda like in my world, well, we would say, well, yeah, Candice, that’s, that’s all good. However, you’re missing the point that the hormonal system and actually the immune system as well is under the control of the nervous system. So emotion’s really more about what the activity in our brain and our nervous system, right? And the neural structures, an underly perception and you know, how we get triggered and, and all that. And, uh, so that’s also true, and those are things we can measure, but then I’m, I’m gonna suggest, no, that’s, that’s not complete either. We also have a third com primary component, which I call the energetic system.

So, uh, through my eyes anyway, um, guy, any living system where multidimensional beings and, uh, a lot of people will call this the biofield now, and that’s a part of what I’m talking about, but not the, the whole story. Um, so. The, now these emotional system from a physiological perspective runs the show, and that’s very easy to, to prove that in the, the lab here. I mean, have you wired up to whatever, you know, hormonal flows, blood pressure, you know, heart rhythms, EEGs, et cetera, et cetera. Right? Done all that over the, the years. You know, you can have people thinking, right, and doing sub subtractions and cognitive tasks and all this stuff. And yeah, you can measure changes, but they’re trivial compared to when you trigger an emotion.

That’s when you see big changes in our physiology, in our blood pressure, the, the release of different hormones and biochemicals and changes in our neural systems and things. But that ultimately starts at the energetic level and that’s really a lot of what we’re teaching people how to become more aware of. ’cause at the energetic level, if you can catch things that would tickly trigger us, right? Or cause. Um, downward spiral emotions or whatever. At the energetic level, they’re a lot easier to turn them around and transform them than, than after it gets down into the, the physiology, right into the changes in especially hormones and all that, that have to clear it takes time, things like that.

Now. So the, the point here is that the emotions run the show physiologically. They’re what regulate our, our, our rate of aging, how well we perform, whether we’re in mental fog or not, what we care about. I mean, you know, the list goes on and on when you really look under that hood, you know, I know us men, we have a hard time with that, especially when we’re younger. I have to kinda learn our way through that sometimes. But here’s the thing, uh, that, that, that your que your comment is causing me to ramble on here a little bit. But

Guy:
ramble.

Rollin:
the emotional system is basically neutral, so it can be activated and set into motion by either the mind or the heart. Now. The problem we face as humanity, I would suggest is that the emotional system for the masses is under control of the mind.

Guy:
Hmm.

Rollin:
Right? And, um, the mind has its tools. Excuse me.

Guy:
Bless you.

Rollin:
Hopefully you can help, you can edit that bit out. But, um, um, sorry about that. But anyway, the, the, so the mind has its, uh, standard tools that like the mind doesn’t wanna lose customers. It’s used to having its way, you know, things like judgments and blame and comparisons, which are just so automatic we don’t even realize we’re doing it. That keeps the emotions you in kind of what you would call a more, a depleting mode. So you can kind of think now of the heart. As the conductor in the whole body system, right? When you start at the energetic level. So when we’re feeling things like frustration or anxiety or impatience kind of things that we take for granted, that’s creating, uh, the conductor’s kind of outta sync, right?

So you have discordant and chaotic music playing out in the body, whereas when you’re more connected with your, your heart and it’s so the, the real. Game from my perspective is for the mind and emotions to finally surrender to the, to the heart that higher part of ourself. And so those, those emotions, those higher emotions are things, I call it the frequency, uh, domain, uh, or the frequency spectrum of love. Uh, and these are things like compassion. Patience, forgiveness and g, gratitude and appreciation. And you know, you get the idea of the list. Those are all, when we measure the energetic frequencies of the body, they actually are frequencies that that can be measured. So that’s, um, hopefully that’s kind of given a perspective here of what, what I’m talking about.

So then the conductor bringing the system, all the body systems into harmony, right? So they’re playing, um. Well together, you know, in, in an optimal way. And that, you know, basically decreases the aging process, right? When we do that, we’re, uh, our relationships get better. We’re making better, a lot better choices ’cause they’re aligned with our, our larger self, right? It clears the metal fog, uh, and so on.

Guy:
Makes sense.

Rollin:
Anyway,

Guy:
Yeah.

Rollin:
sorry for a long answer there.

Guy:
It’s great. I’m, I’m going along and just unpacking in my own mind, so ultimately it feels like we’re going back upstream to the source, which could be the energy field, which influences the nervous system, which influences our biochemistry.

Rollin:
Yeah, it’s our own energetic system, you know? I mean,

Guy:
Yeah. So with that in mind, and just something that’s coming into me is like, uh, even just speaking from my own experience, because when I, when I became, um. adult, you know, through my teens, an adult, I was a bit of, a bit bit wayward in life, let’s say. And I

Rollin:
Yeah, so was I.

Guy:
I felt very lost. And the only thing I, I knew was, um, how to be aggressive on a rugby field and drink beer kind of thing. Like that was my identity. And underneath all that, there was these emotions bubbling away that I had no idea of to.

Rollin:
Right.

Guy:
Put into any, any form shape into, into myself anyway, so I went through my kind of twenties with this real deep feeling of loneliness. Even though I had people around me that was like my

Rollin:
Right. Mm-hmm.

Guy:
coming up all the time. And no matter what

Rollin:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
it would just reside underneath.

Rollin:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
and starting to exploit different work, you know, um, around trauma and the body keeps the score and, and exploring that. And actually coming to the heart. Those, those triggers, those emotions of ease have dissipated and

Rollin:
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, sure.

Guy:
peace

Rollin:
Yeah. Yeah.

Guy:
a, a huge component to me. And I, I was wondering, I’d love to hear your take on how this work can actually impact us with traumas ’cause they knowingly or unknowingly kind of affect the lens on our life so much.

Rollin:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Guy:
we perceive, and it’s, it’s life changing once we, the penny drops,

Rollin:
Yeah. Um, well we actually have a, a certification program. It’s called The Resilient Heart, and it’s just really for, uh, working in a trauma informed,

Guy:
right?

Rollin:
in that space. And I dunno if you’re aware of that or not. And, um, let me, let me tell you a story that motivated, um, that the development of that, that certification program. It’s a great program, by the way, people, it’s one of the highest rated things we do. It’s uh, like five stars out of five stars almost every time. It’s, uh, a different approach to trauma in a way. But there was, uh, one a, a Harath trainer. His name was Mjd, and he, uh, true humanitarian, but he opened three refugee camps, um, in Lebanon for the Syrian refugees.

And was working with hundreds, thousands, actually of, of refugees in his, his three facilities there. And he’d had three programs that he developed, all based on HeartMath, uh, tools, techniques, and, and our technologies that measure your heart rhythm, your heart rate variability, and, and, uh, give you a feedback signal on how coherent you are. Um, which is a, a great tool to facilitate learning how to get in sync and in touch with the heart. And. One of his programs was for kids and which were a lot of, in these refugee camps and a lot of mostly mothers and children. A lot of the fathers were, were no longer with, with, with them. And one, you know, it’s a pretty high stress environment, obviously.

And one of the symptoms, the primary symptoms of the stress, the way it played out physiologically for the kids was bedwetting. It was pretty big problem there and what, what he found. It wasn’t just how well it worked, but how fast it worked. He did research and I think something like 800 kids that he had done studies, you know, on training these techniques based on one of our, our programs actually for young children. And he found that, uh, a very, very high percentage, I don’t remember the exact number, but in the 90% within just a couple of weeks had resolved their, their bedwetting issues when they, he, they learned how to these techniques and he also had another program for the mothers. To help them deal with their stress and to reinforce it with, with their, their children.

And then the third program was a much more in-depth program, and that was for survivors of torture. And um, I mean, I won’t go into all the details here, but it was a much more carefully crafted thing, you know, a safe container and, and all that. But what he, what he told me, we spent a couple days together, um, in once, and he said, basically Roland, he said, there is no resolution of trauma. If we do not reconnect them with their heart. And I think that really is, well, it’s not just in trauma. I think that’s the, the biggest crisis guy that’s facing humanity is really disconnection with our own larger self and disconnection with others. It’s that separation and we see that playing out in the world today, probably more than ever in my lifetime. And, uh, so it’s that reconnection that, uh, really has to happen for the, the real resolution I, I believe of. Of trauma, whether you wanna say it’s stored in the body or, um,

Guy:
Yeah.

Rollin:
our energetic system, which is kind of more where I’m, you know, I fall in, in that curve. But yes, in the body, in the cells as well, of course. But, uh,

Guy:
Wow. You raised such a good point that it. Do you think it’s that simple that we just separate? We feel separate? I mean, when I look on my

Rollin:
well.

Guy:
what it certainly felt like.

Rollin:
Yeah, well, it, it, yes, it’s that simple, but that, it doesn’t mean it’s easy, right? So like, in your own story. And my mine too, actually, as a younger, you know, I mean, I was a wrestler, right? Not a rugby player. But, um, um, we just aren’t, and this is one, actually one of the reasons that we have so many programs for, for kids, you know, from kindergarten all the way through college. That is the, the biggest gift I think we can give children is so they don’t have to go through what you and I did and unlearn all that later in life and go through all of those traumas and separations and the school of hard knocks, you know, because kids take to this very quickly, right before we beat it out of ’em, you know, they’re naturally aligned with their, their larger cells, uh, just are, they’re just loving beans, you know, unless they’re in a, you know, a really horrific environment or something.

But, um. Uh, so we, we learning this as kids, these about our emotions and about how to regulate them, right? Is really the, what we’re talking about here and how to connect with your deeper hearts intuitive guidance. Um,

Guy:
Yeah, absolutely. Um,

Rollin:
but there’s hope, right? Because, you know, we as adults, we can learn this very quickly as well. So, um.

Guy:
I mean, we run retreats and events over here and we have been, and many people are coming and many people want to explore their inner Mm-hmm. You know, they’re tired Yeah. what’s being projected upon them and, Yeah, find their

Rollin:
yeah. Well, your inner self is just your larger self. I’m talking about that’s who you really are and Yeah, same thing.

Guy:
absolutely.

Rollin:
you using, uh, in, in any of your, your retreats and programs, any of our, uh, heart coherence technologies, because we, we find that’s a real facilitator of helping, uh, facilitate that, that process.

Guy:
Heart. I mean, I, Yeah. practice, and this is a question I, I really would love to, uh, unpack with you for everyone is that, in my personal practice every day I always start from breathing through my heart and, and really Mm-hmm. of the heart. But what took me by surprise rolling over the years is that. I didn’t realize how energetically it was closed off or feel like, and then once it actually started opening, I could feel an energetic field Mm-hmm. Taurus of energy actually starting to emanate Yeah. And I remember the first time I felt that like going, am I going nuts? Am I having a heart attack? What the hell Yeah. on? Yeah. the more, the more I’ve practiced it, the more that field has flourished per se. To the point where it’s almost like a peacock. Do you know when you, the peacock could just open its feathers? It

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
it goes in and

Rollin:
Oh, awesome. So you, so you’re becoming aware, as I was saying earlier, of your energetic system, right? Which is part of the emotional, the emotional energetic system. Yeah.

Guy:
So

Rollin:
Yeah,

Guy:
what have you explored around that? Can you unpack it for listeners? ’cause I think so many of us are going around not even aware that’s even possible or exists. And then

Rollin:
yeah,

Guy:
the feedback you start getting from it when. With other people and in different environments and.

Rollin:
yeah. Um, well, I mean, I’m, um. Pondering how to best answer that, that question. Um, the, you know, it’s, it’s simple, but it, it’s, um, one of those something Doc Schary said a a few months ago that, that I found humorous. Uh, just, it just, I laughed out loud actually, was when he said, you know, the mind is used to getting its ways. And it doesn’t wanna lose customers, right. Because it’s used to having its way, and it’s really true. And it’s very tricky when we start, you know, uh, shifting to the heart and, and really accessing that. ’cause you know, I want my way. Right. You know, so I would, let me, let me do this and I’m, I’m gonna ramble a little bit here if that’s okay. But I would invite the listeners and, um, uh, you, you, you probably know what I’m talking about here too, guy, but to think about a, a time, it could be recent.

When either somebody asked you to do something or you, you, you had, you know, an ambition about something, you wanted to buy something or get in a relationship or, or whatever could be, and you had a deeper inner prompting, deeper inner feeling, or it could even been a voice that’s suggesting that’s probably not the best course of action, but you do it anyway. You follow the minds, right? How often have we done that? And then when that plays out, it could be hours or in some cases years, right? Weeks, months, years, depending upon the situation that we think back and realize, God, I wish I’d have followed that inner prompting. Right? How many of us had that experience? Right.

Guy:
course. Mm-hmm.

Rollin:
You know, so that’s really a kind of a way of, a simple way of distinction what I’m talking about between the mind and heart.

Guy:
Right.

Rollin:
Right, and it is that disconnection that we’re really talking about here. That is the, I would suggest, is the largest source of stress for every, for individuals, but for humanity. And that’s really what HeartMath is about, is helping bridge that, that that disconnection. And people can go through lifetimes or just say that if you don’t believe in that this lifetime and never know about that. Right. Uh, that what you’re, you’re talking about. So that’s really, it doesn’t have to be hard math, you know, our skills or techniques or technologies, but, but anything that helps people, uh, a lot of times your own larger self is helping, especially these days, prompt people.

You know, it’s a little, a little louder these days for, from a lot of people, uh, to, to make, ’cause we’re in a, the middle of a shift. Right. Um, to, to make that jump. So. I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but things like heart-focused breathing or techniques. But, um, one way to really facilitate it is actually looking at, well, there are very inexpensive devices now that measure your, um, let me, let me back up if I’m, say it this way. So, you know, we all know what heart rate is, how many times is the heartbeat in a minute, but in reality our heart rate changes with each and every heartbeat, and that’s called heart rate variability. And it’s that beat to beat change that’s always going on, whether we’re asleep, you know, any, any, always going on it just going up and down.

And this is what creates the rhythm of the heart. So HRV is really about rhythms and there are many different rhythms within the heart. That have different physiological sources and, and are really very important for, uh, uh, our ability to perform well, think clearly, um, and the types of things we’re talking about. So there are devices now that you can put a little clip on your ear lobe, right? And, and to see in real time what’s your heart rhythm is and it trains you. Instead of just measuring how much of this heart rate ability you have, these devices train you how to make that shift. From an, what we call an incoherent state to a coherent state, and that’s one of the fastest ways to help open that channel to the heart.

And then there are techniques that you use to help make that shift, like heart focus, breathing, and, uh, as you’re doing the heart focus, breathing you like, you pretend you’re breathing right through the center of your chest, depending upon the context and the situation, and instructs you to say maybe you’re in a traffic jam and you’re getting impatient. Well, soon as you start feeling that your heart focus, breathing and then breathe a feeling of patience. And now that’s starting to shift the energetic frequencies that then change the play out in the body, right? And facilitate, uh, mental functions to be clearer and, um, make better choices. That is, I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but hopefully.

Guy:
whole thing is fascinating. It’s fine. It, like, what, what’s coming to me to, to explore as well is that by developing that. Skill, if you like, by, by sort of the practice of repetition and, and actually, um, for me, the way I see it is that that field is almost, um, coming online. There’s is solidifying, it’s almost strengthening or I, I don’t even know the right

Rollin:
Oh, oh, okay. So we, we can talk about the field a little bit more. That might might’ve been what you were actually asking me about. So when we put electrodes on the body right across the chest to make sure the electrocardiogram. Or we put ’em on the head to measure the electroencephalograph brainwaves. What the electrodes are measuring is the flow of electrical current, literally, that’s why they’re called the electrocardiogram right now. Of course, the heart is measured in millivolts and brainwaves are measured in, in, uh, microvolts. So the heart’s a hundred times plus in, in electrical amplitude and voltage.

So it’s by far the largest, um, electrical system in the body Now. Here’s, that’s all. The electrode. C is current flow, but basic science. Physics 1 0 1, whenever you have a flow of a current, you create a magnetic field. Right now, magnetic fields are electric fields and magnetic fields are, are very different. We call it electromagnetism ’cause one makes the other, and so on. But in this case, the flow of current creates a magnetic field. Now, one of the properties of a magnetic field is they go through things. So why cell phones work indoors? Remember I used to be a communication engineer, so it’s the magnetic component.

It’s going through the walls and the windows and carrying the information. Your voice, right? Or your text message along with the carrier, the magnetic field from your phone to the cell tower. So physiology beat us to all this technology stuff, right? So in the heartbeats, that field radiates easily out through the skin into the space around us. Now, I’m not talking about an or something here. This is something that I can measure. That’s how I know this is true, but I use a different device called a magnetometer measures magnetic fields. Now you can, in fact, most larger hospitals have what are called cgs magneto. Cardiograms. You never touch the body. The sensors just go around the body to measure the the magnetic field. Okay? Now you can back up those sensors. With the, the heart about three feet. I don’t if you do feet or meters, but um, anyway,

Guy:
I,

Rollin:
in Australia, but,

Guy:
really being from

Rollin:
okay, so I’ll tell you, you don’t detect that signal anymore. It doesn’t mean the signal stops. That’s just the sensitivity. Current sensitivity of instruments brainwave you back up about an inch and you lose it. So clearly, energetically, the heart’s the big player. Now we were able to show, this is back in the nineties, that that magnetic field, just like the signal from your cell phones carrying information Well so is this field from the heart? It’s the carrier. And that that’s modulated with E for sure. Emotional state information. Right. So in fact, this is where my training and communication engineering came in handy. ’cause we were able, using the same techniques I used to use at Motorola. To decode a signal like being carried by the, a radio wave used to apply to the signal of the heart.

And you can clearly see, I call ’em different vibrational signatures of different emotional states. So what this is saying, what I am saying is that what we feel inside, whether we’re aware of it or not, we’re broadcasting, right? No. So we can have a kind of an inner music playing of say, anger or frustration or anxiety. You know, that’s in the, always in the background. Well, that’s what we’re broadcasting and it matters because we were also able to show that that field is detected by the nervous systems of other people in a measurable way, in a meaningful way. So we’re, there’s always an energetic communication going on between people when we’re together in groups and I would say even non locally in, in some cases. So. That energetic communication, although most people are unaware of it, is still biasing and influencing their perceptions and their decisions. And

Guy:
That’s incredible.

Rollin:
shaking your head. Yes. So you probably, we all have experienced this. This shouldn’t be some big revelation, but it just now that we’re able to put science to it, to

Guy:
Yeah, no,

Rollin:
um.

Guy:
just dropped with me when he was describing magnetic, magnetic field and how information can go through things. I was like, of course. I never, never thought of it from that perspective before. then my question to you and I, I. For some reason this, this memory stands out in my mind and I, ’cause I went and saw Howard, Howard Martin speak here many years ago. He came to

Rollin:
Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Guy:
to meet him, uh, um, and he spoke about the, um, the Global Coherence Initiative, I believe it was or Mm-hmm. Sure. Mm-hmm. ’cause I was living up near Byron Bay at the time. I dunno if you’re familiar with it. It’s quite a.

Rollin:
Uh, I’m not, no, but, uh.

Guy:
you know, everyone comes around just kind of like to, to go there and experience it and everything. But I was living not far from there, and COVID happened and the lockdowns were happening, and I’ll never forget that. It just got to this heightened point the pandemic that I remember stepping outside the house and I could literally feel fear everywhere

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
it was wild and, and. And I was doing my best to actually just be present with and not allow it to influence my internal

Rollin:
Yeah. Good.

Guy:
But it was, it was the first time in my life that I’d experienced something so heightened and so,

Rollin:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
um, visceral if you, if you and it always made me think of HeartMath that moment did from and talking to you today.

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
And I’d love for you to speak to about then what is actually happening in those moments and how is there. And I’ve like a collective field of consciousness that Yeah. um, with.

Rollin:
Well, I, I would say the evidence is, um, pretty strong to yes to to that, and that’s something that here on the HeartMath Institute, I mean, that’s our science that Howard was talking about, and that was done here. And so the global, uh, coherence initiative is the umbrella. And within that, we are really doing rigorous research around, I think of it as the, um, global, human energetic interconnectivity. Just what you’re describing. Okay. So one, we have a number of tools on our toolbox and it keeps expanding. So at that time, um, Howard was probably talking about. We have a, a global network of magnetometers that in this case are designed to measure the earth’s magnetic fields, rhythms in the magnetic field.

Now, you might ask, well, why would we be doing that? Um, ’cause it’s part of, it’s one aspect of a a, of a global field that, that interconnects all humans. It’s not the only one. And I’ll talk about a second one in a moment if you, if you, if you want. But, so. These, uh, magnetometers are ultra sensitive. They, they’re in kind of remote sites away from manmade noise and so on. Now, why, why this is important guy, if, if, um, if you think of the earth and the geomagnetic field, right? North Pole, south Pole, these are magnetic field lines that go out around the earth. So they’re very long, thousands of miles, many thousands of miles. Now that’s a static field, kinda like a a, a refrigerator magnet, just a pure magnetic field.

Right. But here’s the thing, and I actually didn’t learn this till much later in my own profe even professional career as a, as a communication engineer. I didn’t know this until later, until we had our own magnetometer systems. So we’ve got sites all around the world. So we, as far as I know, we have the only. Truly global, um, time synchronized, calibrated earth’s magnetic monitoring system. So one of the, the things that’s relevant here for this interconnection we’re talking about, so these magnetic field lines. You know, well, let’s, this might help, uh, if I back up one step and invite everybody to time, travel back to when we were in science class.

Back in school. You dump iron filings on a glass plate, right? And you put your magnet under it, right? And whatever the shape of the magnet is, a bar or a horseshoe or whatever the iron filings dance around and show you the shape of the field. Well, that same simple little experiment lets us demonstrate something else. Which are magnetic field lines. ’cause if you remember, picture’s worth a thousand words here. Those iron findings line up in parallel lines. It’s not this big blob of black iron filings. Right? They line up in lines so that those are, they’re lining up with what are called magnetic field lines. So the earth has same thing.

These magnetic field lines. Well, here’s the thing. You can pluck a magnetic field line and it vibrates like a guitar string. Okay, so what’s plucking the strings of earth is the solar wind rushing by at about a million miles per hour. On a normal day, earth is turning in that almost so is the sun, but right. So you have this dynamic of the earth going in and out of the the, the solar wind plucking the strings. Well, here’s the wild thing, the primary resonant frequency, and these are called field line residences, is the technical term. Vibrate in frequency language at a frequency of 0.1 hertz. Okay? That means one cycle every 10 seconds, right?

Guy:
Right.

Rollin:
It’s exactly the same frequency as the human heart rhythm when we’re in a coherent state.

Guy:
Hmm.

Rollin:
See, in our we, we naturally go into these coherent rhythms. We have a, a human resonant frequency too. The center, we just published a paper looking at 1.8 million sessions around globally, uh, established clearly the, the, by far, the center of that bell curve for our, for human resonant frequency. 0.1 hertz. It’s the same frequency. Okay? So we are living in a, in a magnetic field environment, and there’s absolutely no question that we are affected by magnetic fields. Okay? Hundreds and hundreds of papers on this. What I’m suggesting here, and one of the hypothesis of the Global Coherence Initiative is that it’s bidirectional, you know, through resonance principles.

Even though our field is, you know, only going feet, I mean more than three feet, we know that, but it that we are coupled through resonance with the larger earth field. So it’s bidirectional. Not only are we affected by the field. We’re also feeding the field our thoughts and especially our emotions. So when you have a lot of people, like as a perfect example, uh, of COVID, you know, and all the fear and anxiety, and when enough people are radiating that into the field, that’s the global, that’s the, the field in the global, uh, field environment. So that’s affecting everyone,

Guy:
Yeah. And,

Rollin:
not just people. Right.

Guy:
and then if, if people and already disconnected and they’re all in the mind space

Rollin:
Right.

Guy:
heart, it’s only gonna perpetuate

Rollin:
That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

Guy:
Holy moly, it’s

Rollin:
Right. And there’s another set of magnetic rhythms that’s a different mechanism than what I just described, and these are called human nces. And these are, there’s so much nonsense on social media about this, so it’d be good to help

Guy:
Please

Rollin:
clarify this. Uh, so Schumann resonance is what they are. I mean, and I, I can say this with confidence ’cause I have a global network that’s been monitoring us 24 7 for years, right? These are magnetic waves that are bouncing back and forth between the surface of the earth and the bottom of the ionosphere. So when, uh, so the, the ionosphere, if you’re not familiar with it, think of it as a soap bubble around the planet. It’s a, it’s called plasma high, a layer of highly ionized gases. Basically, and plasmas are special properties. They, it’s called the forced state of matter in physics. And one of those properties is they, they act like a mirror to magnetic waves, lower frequency magnet. They bounce off of it.

Guy:
Right.

Rollin:
That’s how ham radio operators, if you’re familiar, you know that, you know, you send your radio signal up and hits the aner and bounces off. And that’s how somebody here in the US is talking to you guys down in Australia.

Guy:
Gotcha.

Rollin:
Right. It’s bouncing back and forth. Right. Okay, so the, this is a cavity and the waves that fit the geometry of the cavity become amplified. And the technical term is globally propagating standing waves. All that means is they’re everywhere all the time. Right? And if they don’t fit the geometry, they quickly dissipate and go away. Okay, so it’s like dropping rocks in a pond. You know, you drop ’em in at the right rhythm, the waves amplifying. You have these beautiful, coherent waves. You drop ’em in all choppy. You just got choppy waves right there. There’s no standing waves.

Same thing. So the these were first, first extremely measured in late 1959, early 1960, not that long ago, actually in my lifetime. Right? So. It’s relatively new, uh, understanding, but the first, there’s eight of them. And this is where, uh, the social media stuff goes crazy all the time and just off base. Uh, the first one is 7.8 hertz is the frequency 10. There’s multiples of that, 14 hertz and so on. Um, all eight of these human residences overlap human brainwaves.

Right. So what I’ve just explained is that the two primary resonant earth frequencies overlap the human heart and brain. Now it’s really interesting. Remember how I talked about the heart is milli, uh, millivolts brain microvolts a hundred times difference. It. Now, I don’t know if this means anything, probably does, is it’s the same ratio at Earth Scale. The field line residences that overlap the heart are huge compared to, to these little baby human residences in terms of their magnetic amplitude. So basically, uh, the science is pretty clear that these background magnetic rhythms we all live in, even if you’re in a space station, you can, you know, are really important for healthy function.

They are a, a synchronizing signal, right? They, they help our physiology stay in sync. These, these different rhythms. And then when they get disturbed, like whether we have a solar flare, right? Um, coronal mass ejection, if it happens to point towards earth, to point towards earth and the plasma wave hits the magnetic field of earth, that causes the field to be disturbed, right? And that’s when we don’t like that our physiology and our emotions don’t like it. That’s when you have more hospital admissions and uh, for all kinds of things. And a lot people are getting edgy quicker, you know, quicker they get angry and frustrated and fly off the handle and that kind of thing.

Guy:
Wow. So that’s like a, so correct me if I’m wrong. So that’s a sympathetic resonance where we then just because we are in it, it’s, it’s

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
is influencing our internal state of being

Rollin:
Yeah. And, and we’re influencing that, that is a bidirectional system.

Guy:
What are your thoughts then on, ’cause you know, I, I’ve done nearly 400 podcasts, right? And there’s been many conversations around. Uh, ultimately, you know, feeling helpless about what’s going on in the world today. And the best thing we can do is actually be our own resonance and be the change that we wanna see in the world.

Rollin:
Mm-hmm.

Guy:
influencing that field by the more C

Rollin:
Well, well, yes, I, I was saying we’re, we’re, we’re influencing the information in that field.

Guy:
right?

Rollin:
not saying we’re making the field stronger or weaker, just like the cell phone. It’s the, the frequency, the carrier wave is carrying information, right. So you can have, you can be on a cell phone call and yelling and screaming at somebody, or you can be on that same call and telling them how much you love them and care about them. You fo you follow on, I’m saying. So it’s the information we’re feeding into the field collect and collectively it’s, it matters,

Guy:
so

Rollin:
right.

Guy:
would there be a tipping point, like a point where then.

Rollin:
I, I certainly believe so, yes. Yeah.

Guy:
no.

Rollin:
Now that, so that’s one level of interconnection, and then we, there’s another level. Uh, that I called. So that’s kind of, I think of that as the global information field, um, that then it’s stuff we can measure with our magnetometers. And we’ve published a lot of papers on this in recent years that if anybody’s interested in, go to our, the heartmath.org website and research library. There’s lots of really cool studies around what, what we’re discussing here, but. Then we’re also another, uh, we have, like I mentioned, a couple tools in our toolbox for, for these kind of measuring these kind of things. And you might have heard of the Global Consciousness Project. Is that something you’ve ever

Guy:
it, I

Rollin:
run across?

Guy:
I’ve heard of it. I haven’t

Rollin:
Yeah,

Guy:
it though.

Rollin:
yeah. That was a project, uh, as we now refer to it as CP one Global Consciousness Project One was started probably about 30 years ago now at Princeton University. By a guy named Roger Nelson, who’s a good friend of mine. And what this, and this is a network of what are called random number generators and what to think, the way to think of an r and g or random number generator is as an electronic coin flipper. So instead of flipping heads or tails, it’s ones or zeros. They just do it really fast and, you know, um, so what Dr. Nissen found is that when he had a network of these devices around the world. That when something happened, an event happened that, uh, enough people paid attention to and synchronized their emotions and that was the key.

They felt something. We fed the field an emotion collectively, that somehow there was an interaction amongst these devices that are, that are designed to be completely random, right? You can’t meaning, you can’t predict the future from the past behavior. That somehow they become connected. And they would start flipping one zero zeros at the same time, in some cases over very long time periods in a correlated way. Okay, so hundreds of events were analyzed and these statistics on, on uh, GCP one at, at its end, where 3 trillion to one odds against chance that this was measuring something real. I mean, you can’t, 3 trillion to one. You cannot argue with that, right?

Guy:
Yeah.

Rollin:
So he had asked me for a long time if we would be take it over and become the new host. ’cause he retired for real, right? Um, even after he retired from Princeton, he kept this alive for, for quite a few years. So we did do that and we created a completely new version called GCP 2.0. Global Consciousness Project 2.0. Uh, so it’s new devices, new network, new website, everything about it. It’s a much, much larger version and, uh, we’re able to address a lot of new research questions. Now, this is a long answer to your your question, but one of the things that, uh, Dr. Nelson was able to show in gcp one is there was a correlation between the number of people best you could estimate in a, in an event.

Like nine 11, the whole world was paying attention, right? Huge effects on the network. But other events like um, uh, global me large meditation events, uh, earth Day, peace Day, things like this, all would have an effect. And he also, by the way, did find that events that evoke love and compassion have a significantly greater. Co creating this coherence in the network. Then events that have a lot of emotion, like Super Bowls, world cups, a lot of emotion, but not love and compassion. Uh, that didn’t have as large of an effect. Anyway, I, I’m, I’m getting off point. What he was able to show is the number of people involved was related to the effect size, right, that you would measure in the network.

In GCP two, we have a new hypothesis and we’re, uh, it, you know, it takes many events and many experiments to say, we’ve demonstrated, you know, something, but it’s looking good. Let me say this, uh, and the hypothesis is this and that is that it’s not necessarily the number of people, it’s how coherent are they?

Guy:
Huh.

Rollin:
So that a mu, a much smaller group of coherent aligned individuals in a higher vibration, basically is what that translates to with a shared intention can have large, as large, maybe even larger effects than the masses or just kinda scattered in their consciousness. And, uh, so this, this, um, the reason I’m sharing this is I think it gives a lot of hope to the question, well, what can I do? Right, because what, what this is saying is this is very hopeful for most people when they really understand this. Because what I’m saying is what we feed the field matters, right? In a measurable way. So as we become more personally responsible for our energetic system, are we feeding the field more love and compassion, right?

Those frequencies of the love spectrum. I was talking about kindness. Right. Appreciation, patience, or are we feeding the field vibrations of frustration, anxiety, fear. Right. Um, hate, anger. Um, ’cause it matters, right? So as enough of us, uh, and especially when we come together, there is an amplification effect, right? But we’re always feeding the field. It’s not just when we come together for a global meditation or something, or a retreat, it’s um, we’re connected 24 7. So the more responsible enough individuals become for what their energetic system is doing in feeding the field, that’s how we create the shift.

Guy:
Yeah. No, it’s beautiful and I’m, I’m all for it. No, it’s fascinating. ’cause even when we witness in our retreats, it’s like everyone comes in with their own individual

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
frequency, if you like, and you know, it’s scattered and,

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
it becomes like an organized orchestra. At the days and you can, it’s almost like the more coherent people become, the more the collective feel that’s emerging out of this retreat

Rollin:
That’s right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. Yeah,

Guy:
It’s fascinating to watch And

Rollin:
yeah. And that can be facilitated. That’s the my main point. Right? We can facilitate that. Right.

Guy:
you know, every time I, I run one, we generally run about six a year, but when I leave that, it just gives me so much hope for humanity because I see the best in people. I see people come in that are feeling a certain way and by the end of it they feel different else. And if they to practice the tools and take it into their everyday life, which is really important of course

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
it, it, it’s creating a different ripple effect into.

Rollin:
Yeah. Right.

Guy:
I mean,

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
journey, your life and with all your knowledge and everything, you’ve, you’re, you’re constantly a very curious man and continue to be, which is just beautiful. How do you feel about the future? You know, the, the shifts that are happening in the world, and are you optimistic? Are you hopeful? Um.

Rollin:
Oh, I’m, I’m very optimistic and very hopeful. Um, I mean, as I was talking earlier, the. The planet. Humanity is really, the emotional system is being driven by the mind. And we see that playing out on the news and, uh, a lot of my friends have stopped watching the news. It’s just a downer. Uh, so that’s real for sure, and that’s necessary. To me, that is part of the shift. We kinda have to go through this, you know? Um, at the same time, there’s more compassion on the planet. More groups coming together. Than ever to, to more conscious communities, more, um, people like yourself starting podcasts that, that have, having, having, having your own version of the wake up right.

To, to a, so that’s going on all over the place. So that’s, so there’s really two different frequency domains or holographic grids, I guess you could say, going on, on the planet at the same time.

Guy:
Hmm.

Rollin:
Um, so as the. Uh, you know, the old grid, you know, the 3D grid, you know, is amplifying and, and, uh, uh, I mean, it’ll get bad enough. It’s not over yet, from my perspective, uh, to where people will finally say, we’ve tried everything else. Let’s give the heart and love a chance, right? I mean, it’s, uh, I know it’s silly, but it’s true.

Guy:
I couldn’t believe more,

Rollin:
I mean, enough is enough. Finally, right? We’ve gotta, we gotta take a different approach. Let’s, let’s try love and cooperation.

Guy:
Yeah.

Rollin:
Uh, but meanwhile there’s the other frequency that’s going on that is doing that, that is creating this new energetic grid that is feeding the field these higher frequencies of compassion and, uh, love and kindness.

Guy:
Yeah. No, it’s beautiful. I wanna be respectful of your time, mate, to make sure we, we honor the, the top of the hour.

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
what, what, what would you suggest for, I’ve been captivated by the way, this whole conversation’s flown in the blink of an eye, and I feel like I’ve only

Rollin:
Yeah.

Guy:
the surface surface with you, Roland. But, um, what would you, is there one thing you would recommend people to explore right now that they could take away, you know, from

Rollin:
Yeah, well, uh, not to be self-promoting, but I would really recommend people read the book Heart Intelligence, and it’s available in lots of formats. Um, you know, audio books and PDFs and all that. Um, uh, I’m a co-author along with our founder, doc Childre and a couple other colleagues. I think it’s a great introduction. I would also recommend people explore one of the, the apps. Uh, probably the best one, if you’re new to this kind of work is just simply called the HeartMath app, right? Uh, just go to the, your app store, whether it’s Google or Apple or whatever, and, and, uh, try that out. And, uh, you can, uh, as an introduction, you can use the phone’s, uh, the camera on your phone as a sensor for your pulse to measure your heart rhythm.

Guy:
Wow.

Rollin:
Um, so it’s a great way to see what your own rhythms are.

Guy:
Hmm.

Rollin:
And there’s a lot of introductory tools and techniques there, uh, to start the journey. Um, so that would be a great thing. But, but really my, my, I’m gonna repeat myself a little bit here. My, my call to action, if you don’t do any of that, would just be to, and I hope you do, do one. It’s one of those, or both of those things would be to just try and remember to pause as often as you can throughout the day and just simply ask yourself, what am I feeding the field?

Guy:
Huh.

Rollin:
And if you find it, it’s one of those lower frequency vibrations. Just do some heart focused breathing and breathe. Be, breathe, a replacement attitude or feeling. If you’re feeling impatient, breathe patience. Right? Or just, just do heart focused breathing. That, that even just, that’ll help, uh, shift that energetic, uh, frequency that you’re feeding. Remember, you’re feeding this to all your cells. This is the ultimate epigenetic signal. But you’re also feeding it to others and to the, to the larger world and community

Guy:
Beautiful. And the, the website, it’s hot mass.org, is that correct?

Rollin:
heartmath.org. Yes.

Guy:
Well, I just wanna say thank you for all the, everything you do mate. Like as a guy from Wales, from the Valleys playing rugby, drinking beer, that HeartMath had a huge influence in me in terms of just being able, it’s okay to feel and it’s okay to explore the heart. And it was a language that I, I really resonated with and was something I could take. straight on board, you know what I mean? And um, yeah. So without what you do and everything you set up, you know, it’s uh, yeah. I dunno where I’d be. So look, thank you. Appreciate it.

Rollin:
Yeah. Um, thank you for, for sharing that.

Guy:
no. Amazing. Thanks so much. I, I have no doubt

Rollin:
All right. Well, well,

Guy:
it.

Rollin:
I really enjoyed, uh, our conversation guy and, uh. Uh, maybe we’ll do it again sometime and, and, uh, take care everyone.

Guy:
I’d love that. Thank you.